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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 9, 2013
El Chorro
camhead wrote:
Just a brief anecdote-- I've climbed a few times with a kid, super strong (solid 5.13 sport), established in the gym/team scene, who also happens to be black. I was talking to his mom (really cool woman, who chauffeurs him on long weekend roadtrips, belays him, totally supports his passion). She mentioned that a while back, their local newspaper did a brief write-up on him, since after all he is a very good comp climber. Quite a few angry folks from their black community wrote letters to the paper, complaining about them publicizing one of their own who was doing a "white person's sport." I'm not exactly sure if there is much to glean from this story, and I hope that no nitwits will jump on it to say, "See? Blacks don't want to climb! It's not in their culture!" It's more complex than that. And as far as large-scale social problems go, Ian is right, this is not on par with economic or legal discrimination. But at the same time, it would be cool to see more people from historically peripheralized races and classes get into the sport that we love. Obe Carrion's story is awesome. Any one of us would be psyched to see hoards of non-white kids having bouldering sessions in Central Park. In the end, what James is doing is pretty cool; he's identified a simple and real fact: not a lot of blacks climb. He's theorized rightly that if more blacks were exposed to climbing and outdoor rec in general, cultural bridges would be built and our whole society would be just a tiny bit better. And, finally, he's found a very minor yet significant way that he can help make this happen, by way of putting real black climbers into an ad, even if it is a cheesy beer ad.


Isn't that kid from Raleigh? I think he climbs at TRC.

reboot, you're right about the Royal Family being all white. But most people don't really consider them to be part of "life in the UK."

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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Jan 9, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!
Ryan Williams wrote:
Isn't that kid from Raleigh? I think he climbs at TRC.


Yup.

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Jan 9, 2013
Ryan Williams wrote:
reboot, you're right about the Royal Family being all white. But most people don't really consider them to be part of "life in the UK."

I don't think anybody consider them to have a typical "life in the UK", neither are prime ministers or presidents. But they are the "face" of a nation, more often than not. I'd contend a nation lacking diversity in the leaders or the privileged class is not truly diverse.

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By Jaime M
From Chattanooga, TN
Jan 9, 2013
Much love for the rock
camhead wrote:
In the end, what James is doing is pretty cool; he's identified a simple and real fact: not a lot of blacks climb. He's theorized rightly that if more blacks were exposed to climbing and outdoor rec in general, cultural bridges would be built and our whole society would be just a tiny bit better. And, finally, he's found a very minor yet significant way that he can help make this happen, by way of putting real black climbers into an ad, even if it is a cheesy beer ad.


+1

I really enjoyed your article, James, as well as your comments on white privilege, which, to be clear, isn't the same thing as institutional racism. I think you've hit on an important point in your article that the outdoors in general represents something different to African Americans. Living in the South, I think there's a great deal of cultural memory of the outdoors as being a place of marginalization and hardship--of working for others' profit, of trying to eek out a living as a tenant farmer or sharecropper, of lynchings and brutal murders. As result, the outdoors may not feel like a place of escape or repose as it does for many white men and women. That's where white privilege comes into play. The narrative that white Americans, in particular, have grown up with is one in which men (not so much women--that's another issue entirely) have tested themselves against the natural world--proving their strength and dominance. In other words, there's a link between the outdoors and its "conquest" and white masculinity--a link that could make others feel uncomfortable. With that in mind, it's easier to understand why previously "dominated" groups like African Americans, other minorities, and women don't participate in sports like climbing to the same degree as white men.

Again, this isn't to say that the climbing community is somehow at fault or isn't welcoming of diverse participants, but there needs to be a change in the cultural narratives of what nature means to us, how we relate to it, and why we should protect it. The fact that James is working toward that goal is really awesome.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 10, 2013
El Chorro
reboot wrote:
I don't think anybody consider them to have a typical "life in the UK", neither are prime ministers or presidents. But they are the "face" of a nation, more often than not. I'd contend a nation lacking diversity in the leaders or the privileged class is not truly diverse.


So at what point did the United States become diverse then? Colin Powell? Codoleezza Rice? Barack Obama?

I think you're confusing diversity and equal opportunity. No one is claiming that minorities in either country have the same opportunities as whites. It is getting better in both the US and the UK, but both places are a long way off from being able to say that everyone truly has equal opportunity. The UK is probably worse than the US. And as so many have mentioned before, it's not only about race, but also social, economic and cultural barriers.

But to say that the UK population is not diverse because the Royal Family is not diverse doesn't make sense. Have you ever been to a city in the UK?

I live in one of the most affluent boroughs in the entire country. We pay a lot more for a much smaller flat because we like it here. One of the main reasons that I do like it is because it is a very nice neighborhood (not unlike the neighborhood I grew up in) but it is also racially and culturally diverse (UNLIKE the neighborhood I grew up in). I live within a five minute walk of a white British family, a Black British family, a Somali family, a Jamaican family, a Pakistani family, and Johnny Rotten. I also have neighbors from Spain, Italy, and Turkey, and the couple that lives downstairs is gay. Add me and my half Filipino wife and we have quite a diverse little community.

The company I work for has about 30 employees in the UK. That includes people from the US, UK, Trinidad, Jamaica, Nigeria, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Australia, South Africa, Czech Republic, Germany, Pakistan and India.

If that is not diversity I don't know what is. The Queen herself has welcomed the influx of people to the UK in the past decades. Just because there is still some limitations to social mobility does not mean that a country is not diverse. It only means that certain parts of it are not diverse, and this is still the case in most countries in the world.

All camhead was commenting on was that you see a more diverse group of people in the UK media than you do in the US - and it's completely accurate. When a black person gets the lead role of a doctor or lawyer in a major AMerican television show or movie, it is kind of a big deal. Here, it is just normal. That doesn't mean that there actually IS more social mobility here, but at least they are making an effort here to show that social mobility is present and very possible. In the US it seems the other way around.

One of the points that James is trying to make is that there are still a lot of choices that are made by the American media that cause harm to the African American community. When a young black person in the US sits down to watch TV, he will immediately notice that the people on TV that look like him are more often criminals than lawyers, more often patients than doctors, more often players than coaches, more often employees than employers, and more often poor than rich. I haven't had a TV in five years but at least I can say it was still like that when I left the US in 2007. So when a black person picks up a climbing magazine and sees only white people, what are they to think? That this is the perfect activity for them to go out and try? Probably not. Probably more like "man, I bet I'd look funny up there in the mountains with all those white people."

Sure, the climbing mags are only representing the actual climbing community and you can't fault them for that. But if one of them made more of an effort to show that climbing can be for everyone, I don't think you'd fault them for that either. It can be done.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Jan 10, 2013
Stoked...
James Mills wrote:
I want to thank everyone for their kind and thoughtful consideration of this post. It's remarkable how different the responses and discussion are here compared to the identical post that went up on rockclimbing.com. The anger and hostility I experienced there was disappointing and a bit heart breaking. So I sincerely appreciate the rational discussion we are having here. To speak to the point of culture I agree that there are issues that go far beyond race when exploring the adventure gap. But specifically in own case the color of one's skin has everything to do with why African-Americans may or may not spend time outdoors and it's not for the reasons you might think. From the time I was a young man in certain circles I was ostracized by my own peers for not being "black enough". After a successful high school football career I opted for rowing in college to expand my athletic experience. I was part of the aquatics community at Berkeley splitting my time between the Cal Crew boathouse and the pools on campus where I was a lifeguard and swim instructor. From there through graduation I worked at the campus sports facility teaching CPR and First Aid and ultimately became a backpacking trip leader and rock climbing instructor. I was on the staff of one of the first commercial indoor climbing gyms in the country. After working at REI managing the rental department I took a job working customer service at the North Face until I was promoted to a position as a sales rep managing a six state territory in the Midwest. Despite steady progress through a career that now spans 20 years I still have to explain to my friends and family back home why I do what do, those crazy things that white people do. During Christmas years ago I once did a slide show of a two week kayak adventure in Bolivia. Pictures of me paddling on alpine lake at 10,000 feet were met not with gasps of awe but incredulous head shakes. "You've heard of the Bahama's, right?" said one cousin. This speaks to the point in my article regarding those things we're "supposed" to do as black people in America. When you grow up being told that black people don't camp, don't ski, don't swim there's an amazing amount of social pressure to overcome. That's especially true when the broad media spectrum on television, in magazines and in films reenforces that idea by failing show images of people who look like you doing the same things you enjoy or might like to try one day. As Sophia Danenburg points out in the article her story and mine shouldn't necessarily matter to climbers or outdoor professionals to whom our accomplishments are unexceptional. Our stories though will hopefully impact those people of color who conform to social pressure and self-select themselves out of activities they have every right to participate in but simply don't because they tell themselves it's not something they're supposed to do. I believe that the only real solution to this issue is to continue to create positive role models that demonstrate the options that are available to anyone willing to put in the effort and try. I hope that this upcoming beer commercial featuring African-American climbers will help with that and later this year a group working with the National Outdoor Leadership School aims to put the first majority black team on the summit of Denali (expeditiondenali.nols.edu/) I hope that though this and other initiatives we can achieve a cultural change that will ultimately make a person's race or ethnicity completely irrelevant in the near future. Again, thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion


I really enjoyed the writeups (Thanks! And I like to think we are more thoughtful here on MP.com)and being a white male from the NYC suburbs my thought is in speaking with black friends and having 1 friend who I used to climb with... is that the cultural issue/perceptions are ingrained in the sub-culture of black folks. I don't want to come across as harsh or critical and I'm not sure how those perceptions came to be, but from my experience it has a lot to do with the comments, like your cousin made, about the Bahamas. How you change that may be through manipulative media outlets and educational opportunities. I'm trying to think to myself if there's some outside influence that created that within the sub-culture or whether that was something created from within.

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By James Mills
Jan 10, 2013
Personal Photo
I need to make myself very clear. I don't believe that today there is anything preventing blacks or other minorities from participating fully and actively in the climbing community. I am merely suggesting that I and other people to whom this issue matters can do more to encourage people of color to spend time out of doors and engaging in adventure sports like mountaineering. This morning I posted a story to my web site that I wrote in December for National Geographic Adventure. joytripproject.org/2013/from-s... Asa Firestone is a young businessman from Boulder who is working to put the first commercial climbing wall near the slum areas of Rio de Janeiro. His goal is to provide young people with an alternative to life in gangs peddling drugs in their neighborhoods. He believes as do I that by providing exposure, opportunity and positive role models he can help make a difference in their lives. Though he is white Asa is working with local adults to help them become competent climbers so that they can mentor the youth around them. Projects like this in the U.S. could have a big impact on shrinking the adventure gap. I can only hope that fellow climbers might share my enthusiasm for this kind initiative and lend their support where they can either financially or as volunteers. At the very least I believe that it's important to realize that everyone needs a little support and encouragement to get on route to start climbing.

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By Rajiv Ayyangar
From Portland, ME
Jan 10, 2013
Cut! Sadly my flash attempt met with dismal pump-f...
Ryan - well said. I was in London for the holidays and visited the Biscuit and West Way gyms - In my brief time there I noticed a significant diversity in the climbing community.

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By Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Jan 10, 2013
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
James Mills wrote:
I can only hope that fellow climbers might share my enthusiasm for this kind initiative and lend their support where they can either financially or as volunteers.


If there was a program or initiative of this type in my area, I would volunteer. I know several other people that would too. You raise an interesting point. If you can engage kids that would otherwise be doing less than honorable activities and really inspire an interest in climbing, it would certainly make a measurable difference. As we all know, even if you suck at it, if you become immersed in and obsessed with climbing, there is little room for anything else.

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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Jan 10, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!
If anyone has a bit of time on their hands (who am I kidding, this is the internet, we ALL are wasting time here), check out this pretty funny cracked.com article on how Hollywood is still really behind on a lot of subtle race issues. These are the kinds of things that we are working with in the cultural-media exchange:

cracked.com/article_19549_5-ol...

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Jan 10, 2013
Ryan Williams wrote:
I think you're confusing diversity and equal opportunity...

Dude, sensitive much? All I'm pointing out is the monarchy is the anti-thesis of diversity. While it may be a small part of the population, it still wields quite some power. As long as it exists, UK still lags behind some nations in that aspect. Also, for all your claim of racial diversity, the entire UK is still almost as white as Boulder. But that's not all important: racial diversity matters little without cultural diversity (which there hardly is any in Boulder).

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By Ian Stewart
Jan 10, 2013
James Mills wrote:
[Asa] believes as do I that by providing exposure, opportunity and positive role models he can help make a difference in their lives. Though he is white Asa is working with local adults to help them become competent climbers so that they can mentor the youth around them. Projects like this in the U.S. could have a big impact on shrinking the adventure gap. I can only hope that fellow climbers might share my enthusiasm for this kind initiative and lend their support where they can either financially or as volunteers. At the very least I believe that it's important to realize that everyone needs a little support and encouragement to get on route to start climbing.


James, I agree with this completely. I feel that climbing and any sport and/or outdoor activity greatly improves ones quality of life, and exposing those to new experiences that they might not otherwise have is awesome (especially those that are surrounded by crime). I also agree with your ideas that we need to ensure that our outdoor space is preserved, especially in a future where immigration and increasing urban populations may not care as much about these things. My only disagreement with you was linking this all to one specific race, and I admit that discussion may have gone a little further than it should have.

Even if some turd like me is giving you a pain in the ass on the internet, you're still doing more for climbing than I ever have. I'm glad that you're willing to put your words out there for everybody to read (and unfortunately criticize), since you do make some very worthwhile observations. I hope that even people who disagree with some of your points can look past those to see the bigger picture; I have, and I'm sorry I didn't mention that earlier when I was busy debating with you.

I'll keep my eye open for black climbers, but since Fort Collins is only 1.2% black to begin with, I'm not sure how much luck I'll have. On the other hand, my wife is Asian if they want to tick off both the female and minority boxes!

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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Jan 10, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!
reboot wrote:
All I'm pointing out is the monarchy is the anti-thesis of diversity. While it may be a small part of the population, it still wields quite some power.


I'm REALLY trying hard not to fall into academic discourse here, but that is a blanket statement that does not stand up to any sort of critical scrutiny beyond the superficial "ruling families are white" statement.

In terms of colonial racial policy in colonies and in imperial centers, emancipation, and subsequent civil rights issues, you could make the case that monarchical empires such as Britain, Spain, and to a lesser degree France had better racial policies than anti-monarchical nations or empires such as the US, Netherlands, or Brazil.

Spain had a legacy of top-down monarchically imposed laws securing legal rights for slaves and non-whites stretching from the 1000s into the early 1800s. England, with its limited electorate and monarchy, was at the forefront of abolition. American democracy, on the other hand, was one of the last world powers to give up slavery, and its Civil Rights record since then has been equally abysmal. And don't bring up South Africa as a monarchical counter-argument, a lot of scholars have theorized that its brutal racial legacy owes more to the Dutch (a republic), than England.

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 10, 2013
El Chorro
reboot wrote:
Dude, sensitive much? All I'm pointing out is the monarchy is the anti-thesis of diversity. While it may be a small part of the population, it still wields quite some power. As long as it exists, UK still lags behind some nations in that aspect. Also, for all your claim of racial diversity, the entire UK is still almost as white as Boulder. But that's not all important: racial diversity matters little without cultural diversity (which there hardly is any in Boulder).



I'm not being overly sensitive, I just don't agree with you. For what it's worth, I held a similar opinion until I actually moved here. It looks a lot different on the outside, I'll give you that. If you want to have a discussion about what the Royal Family means to Britain, we can do that in another thread. It's a bit different than you might think. They certainly aren't keeping the country from embracing all types diversity.

But yes, the UK is still very white. I acknowledged this in a previous post - London looks a lot different than the rest of the UK in terms of colour. It is the only place in the UK where you are a minority if you are white. But if you count the whole metro area, the city is home to nearly a quarter of the population of the UK and it is certainly the center of the economy. In that way the UK is very similar to the US. Most of the diversity occurs in the big cities.

No reason to continue talking about the UK. I just thought it was worth mentioning that the demographics at climbing gyms here are a little different than they are in most other parts of the world. I think it has at least a little to do with the fact that the gyms actively promote themselves to a very wide range of cultures in an attempt to break down some barriers.

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Jan 10, 2013
camhead wrote:
I'm REALLY trying hard not to fall into academic discourse here, but that is a blanket statement that does not stand up to any sort of critical scrutiny beyond the superficial "ruling families are white" statement.

I'm not saying that a monarchy is better or worse at promoting diversity or expanding minority rights over a democracy. But the fact remains it lacks diversity in the decision makers. You picked the successful examples, but how about the less successful ones in the middle east, Africa, the communist countries, etc? Are those also shining examples of diversity? That's the problem I see inherent in a monarchy/oligarchy government: the fate of a nation hinges on the brilliance/brutality of the homogeneous few. True diversity is only achieved when diversity is in every part of the social/economic structure.

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By Woodchuck ATC
Jan 10, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
I see some reference to indoor climbing gyms being diverse in many areas....I agree that there have been many people of color active in these gyms. But they seem to treat the activity as they would any workout in a general health club. They still are not transferring the climbing learned to the outdoors. Where are the big numbers of black gym climbers out on the cliffs? They are not, with many reasons why mentioned in many lengthy paragraphs above. If it just isn't in your nature, your blood to be an outdoor adventure kind of person, you may never choosse to do so.

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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Jan 10, 2013
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December...
A good percentage of my friends in Vegas happen to be black; African Americans, Nigerians, and a few friends from Trinidad . My friends are from all walks of life- from the poorest, and most streetwise who grew up in crime ridden areas of inner cities , to ones raised farming on their family compound in Nigeria, to ones raised "country" in the deep south, to the highly educated, and privileged. When I've discussed climbing with my black friends, and invited them out, a common response has been that black people just don't do that. It's further stressed to me, in a humorous way, that they don't hike, climb, or swim, and don't like the cold. Some mentioned that they grew up doing hard labor outside, and were sick of being exposed to the elements. As they laugh at the thought of participating in such outdoor activities for "fun", I'm often asked if I see black people out in the places I go hiking, climbing, or camping. When I tell them that I have seen some black folks out hiking, some of whom are my black friends who were introduced to it at some point in their life, (Of course I don't mention that it's a rare sight from my experiences), they seem to be in disbelief.

The black friends of mine who I was able to get somewhat interested in getting out seemed to get a lot of pressure from their families to NOT participate in crazy outdoor activities in remote areas that mostly white folks do. Some have even said that mountains, and remote areas where these outdoor activities might take them are unsafe for black people; full of rednecks, and folks that don't like black people, and so on.

With that being said, I was fortunate that a good friend of mine from Trinidad, her kids, and a streetwise African American inner city guy friend of hers did finally come out hiking with me. They had a good time, and were surprised how much they enjoyed the peaceful , and beautiful nature outdoors, and were amazed that there's so many interesting things to see. My friend said her kids kept bugging her several times to call me to go hiking again. She continued hiking with me on various day hikes, and actually takes a few of her friends of color out hiking now; many who have never been in the great outdoors, although she says she gets quite a few cancellations on planned hikes with black friends.

Re: outdoor climbing- I was able to interest a few of my black friends into at least trying it, but after A LOT of pressure from their families, and friends within their close knit community, they cancelled coming out after making arrangements with me.

I've always tried to introduce not only my black friends, but all my city friends of all races to get outdoors. Most seem afraid of snakes, dirt, bugs, and wild animals as a reason to not partake in my adventures, but that's a "whole nother ball game." : )

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By James Mills
Jan 10, 2013
Personal Photo
Ian your apology is unnecessary but graciously accepted. You and I disagree very little and to that point my concentration on African-Americans is most likely a product of my own experience. There is also the general observation by myself and others that blacks have the lowest rate of participation among all other ethnic groups. I believe that we can make the outdoors more attractive and accessible to those least likely to spend time outside by extension we can make the outdoors more attractive and accessible to everyone.

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By Wannabe
Jan 11, 2013
James,
Some of your comments and others' comments got me thinking. In general I worry about the effectiveness of outdoor programs strictly for kids of color. If a person agrees that there is a stigma among people of color against going outdoors for recreation or engaging in "mountain sports" then the liklihood that a kid is going to continue to be able to go outside once the trip, or group or *whatever* ends is pretty small in my opinion. Your parents and friends think you're crazy for even wanting to do it and now you have to ask for a ride or try and talk someone into to going with you so you have a partner. Sound probable? I'm not saying there wouldn't be strong personalities that would persist-- I'm sure you're an example of that. But if we're talking about a game changer here I don't think that's the approach to go with.

On the other hand if you introduce an entire family to a sport and they enjoy it then it seems much more likely they'll continue with it after the initial program. The down side to this is I'm not sure I'd take my whole nuclear family multipitch trad climbing altogether. For me at least its a different thing when/if that deathblock whizzes by the wife, kid AND I instead of just whizzing by my partner and I. YMMV.

--Wannabe

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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 11, 2013
El Chorro
I was at the gym again today and decided to ask a few of my friends if they had any climbing trips planned for the spring. Both of the black climbers I asked have plans for trips to Europe, and one of them happens to be a very accomplished ice climber.

James, I have no idea how different in really is here, but in my simple observation, there are more climbers of colour here than in many places in the US. Maybe it is worth looking into this further? I'd be interested to help, or at least to hear about anything information that you find.

Also, I thought I'd add something else that my wife and I were talking about tonight. The level of participation of African Americans in baseball has plummeted over the last two decades. Why is that? Are the reasons the same as why we see so few black people climbing?

Finally, the participation levels of African Americans in golf has risen a lot in the last 10-15 years as a direct result of active programming to introduce the sport to young black people. Is this something that is being done with climbing - or something that could be done?

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By Superclimber
Jan 11, 2013
Ugh, my first amendment rights have been violated! Fucken moderators….

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By James Mills
Jan 12, 2013
Personal Photo
Wannabe,
Your points are well taken and I couldn't agree with you more. On several occasions when I've been involved in get-kids-outside programs I am often struck by how ineffectual a single outdoor experience can be to a low income child with limited parental encouragement. How likely would that kid be to have a repeat or ongoing experience in nature without the necessary equipment or financial resources. Most programs don't necessarily target only children of color. It just so happens that most poor kids in this country happen to be black or Hispanic. I agree that in order to create a sustainable relationship with the natural world it's best to help adults within minority communities to work with the young people around them to create multiple experiences whose impact will be longer lasting. In an interview the author of "The Last Child in the Woods" Richard Louv told me, "You're almost doing a kid a disservice by taking him to Yosemite once."It's not enough to sow the seed in a child's mind. You to nurture it and help it grow.

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By Marcus-Alpine
Feb 27, 2013
Hello everyone my name is Marcus I am kinda new to climbing, I have been climbing on the regular for about 1.5yrs now, I am a solid 5.11 lead climber and just starting to get into trad climbing, I also ice climbed a few times.. ohhh and I'm black. I love the sport of rock climbing. I feel it is one of the best things to ever happen to me. I don't feel climbing has a race.. yes mostly white people climb but that is changing. I've seen Asians, whites and slowly people of color making their way to the wall/crag.
Have I ever felt uncomfortable at the climbing wall... to be honest yes. People look surprise when they see me leading a route and doing a pretty good job at it. It makes me laugh honestly. But it also drives me to get better and better.

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By Marcus-Alpine
Feb 27, 2013
James Mills wrote:
If you're an African-American mountaineer with vertical ice climbing experience I have an opportunity to share. A casting agent is looking for black climbers (18 to 45) to appear in a national television commercial. Please reply to this post if you're interested or know someone who might be for details. At the risk of starting another heated discussion in this forum on the issue of race and mountaineering I'll ask that you please first read my recent story in Alpinist Magazine: alpinist.com/doc/ALP40/40-wire... Thanks!

I would be interested in the opportunity. I have ice climbed before and rock climb indoor (3X) week, outdoor climb when possible (I live in Detroit) please let me know of any opportunities or anything I can do to further diversity in climbing.
Marcus Rivers
email marcus6515@gmail.com
facebook : m.facebook.com/marcus.rivers.3...

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By James Mills
Apr 12, 2013
Personal Photo
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion way back in January. I'm please say that the producers of the commercial found a black climber to appear in this TV ad. Check it out and let me know what you think: ispot.tv/ad/7I_e/coors-light-v...

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