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C4's or Master Cams?
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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Oct 16, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

I'm looking for opinions on what's better, the smaller range c4 cams(.75, .5, .4, .3) or the equivalent sizes in Master Cams. I've got a bunch of the larger c4s and I love them. I've also used a friend's .5 c4 and have been pretty happy with it. Never used the Master Cams but I've heard good things about them. What do you think?


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By foodgeek
Oct 16, 2009

It's really just personal preference, the master cams and C4s both work great. I like the C4s down to .4, the #2 C3 has roughly the same range as the .3 C4 with a much narrower head.


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By BenCooper
From Chicago, IL
Oct 16, 2009
Washer Woman and Monster Tower.

I don't think I'd leave home without my .5 and .75 camalots. In those sizes, they're tops in my opninion. That said, I also love my black master cam(#5, between .75 and 1 camalot). The thing will fit in those weird pockets in which camalots rarely fit. So....just get both :)


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By Paul Hunnicutt
From Boulder, CO
Oct 16, 2009
Half Dome

2nd the C4 down to the .4
The .75, .5, and .4 are awesome cams.


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By Evan1984
Oct 16, 2009

Use and love both. I personally feel that in the smaller sized cams, it is important to have a selection of brands. Sometimes, a c4 doesn't place quite right and the same sized master or TCU is bomber. Other times, the opposite is true.

I will say that, as a whole, c4's are my go to cam and above a size 1 or so, there is no other cam in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents,
Evan


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By Gaar
From Springdale / Zion UT / Moab
Oct 16, 2009
Krunk Juice 12d (probably 2nd ascent?) <br />Zion NP <br />Photo Eric Draper

I've been climbing with both for a while, well since before they were available to the market...The only quam I have with either is that the Larger Master Cam (Black, and Green) get sloppy after a one or two falls..What I mean is when I go to pull the trigger the cam folds in half, kinda like a good ole worn out alien..The C4's retain stiffness.
But to counter act this I think the smaller master cams are great.

2pennies


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By lee hansche
Administrator
From goffstown, nh
Oct 16, 2009
getting to the last jug before the top out

Camalots... i like the range and the feel in my hand but the master cams are cool too... in the small sizes my favorite is TCUs... really its up to your preference... what ever you use you will get used to... and you will love them...


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By Ben H
Oct 16, 2009
Huevos 11+, Intersection Rock, Joshua Tree, CA.

I like my TCUs, but have no aversion to BD whatsoever. I frequently use BD also. I also really really like the wild country long stem zeros, they feel better than TCUs and c4s IMO.


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By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Oct 16, 2009
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Kongma La.

+1 for the camalots.

C4's down to .5 is a no brainer at this point. And I agree that the #2 (yellow) C3 covers that smallest C4 size (.3). So the only cam worth some debate is the .4 C4.... at that point, might as well play the same suit throughout.

[BD, if you're reading this, give a go at making the C3's in two larger sizes... just to overlap with the smaller range of the .5, thanks.]


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By Evan S
From Erie, CO
Oct 16, 2009
Me, of course

The #2 C3 and .3 C4 are the same size, but four lobes spread out over more surface is safer, especially in soft rock. I carry both and if the .3 fits, I go for that first. The Master Cams feel nice, but I can't get over the kevlar cables, even though they have been using them on their big cams for a while now. No one seems to say much about Wild Country cams, I think they're well made, smooth, and very reliable, I personally like to carry those and BD's in larger and medium sizes (with a couple link cams too), and Aliens and C3's for the small stuff. In the future I may pick up some of the smaller WC's and some Zero's.


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By coreylee
From Sacramento, CA
Oct 16, 2009

aliens


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By Phoenix
From louisville, colorado
Oct 18, 2009
hiking 8-5-09 (Don't chase the rabbit!!!)

C4's down through .5 Mastercams from yellow down, works great for me!


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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Oct 18, 2009
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

Thanks everybody! Great info.


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By Eli Kramer
From Saratoga Springs, NY
Oct 18, 2009

I also love the C4's down to .4, and the #2 C3 (yellow). The yellow C3 might be one of the most used pieces on my rack. I don't think I'd ever leave the ground without the .5 and .75 C4's but I do have some TCU's also. I don't really like the action on the Mastercam as much.


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By dinglestyle
From Catonsville, MD
Oct 18, 2009
Pat at Rocks State Park

1 TCU all the way, Then stick with BD. I love my C3s and C4s, but the orange TCU is the best cam in that range hands down. If BD was smarter they would add 1 or 2 more sizes larger sizes to the C3 line up.

Four lobes donít always have more surface areas, The C3 has a very large middle lobe, which gives it more usable surface area then comparable 4 lobe cams. In-fact your surface area is greater unless you are undercammed. Plus 3 lobes walk less.


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By dinglestyle
From Catonsville, MD
Oct 19, 2009
Pat at Rocks State Park

If you measure the with of the lobes, which is not total surface area, but is a easy way of measurement. You will see that 3 wider lobes can have great surface then 4, which is the case below.

#2 C3 ranges from .5616 of a inch to 1.1856 of surface area
#.3 C4 ranges from .5 of a inch to .8736 of surface area


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By Marc-Andre
From Squamish, B.C
Nov 12, 2009

Im not a fan of BD C3's because of the terrible spring-in-stem design that doesnt allow the stem to fit nicely in the crack, they can also be hard to retract when pumped. I would get C4's for larger sizes, like ringlocks and up and mastercams and TCU's for fingery stuff. just my two cents....


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By Andy Laakmann
Site Landlord
From Bend, OR
Nov 12, 2009
Racked and loaded... name that splitter behind me? Hint, its on Supercrack Buttress

I think one set of C3s and one set of MasterCams (up to Orange) is a perfect combo for a small cam setup... as they each fit different spots. Then I have C4s for everything bigger.


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By coryred797
From Yonkers, NY
Apr 4, 2010

I like C4's from .3-2 and a set of aliens black through red with doubles in yellow and green and .4-1. I have 2 master cams the bigger ones, black and green which I liked until someone I met at Peterskill showed me a scary thing with them. When the mastercam was placed in a horizontal crack with the trigger wires hanging over the edge the cam stem rotates when you fall on it and it actually loosens 2 lobes which on a bigger size wasn't to sketch but I can see on a smaller one leading to failure. The only way to avoid this was to place the cam so far back that the trigger was clear of the crack and if it walked would become part of the climb imo. He also mentioned it has been talked to death on a lot of forums so not trying to bring up old stuff but just wanted to give a heads up if your gonna use them in horizontal cracks like many found here on the east specifically the gunks.

For me at least the mastercams are going to stay as a doggie anchor or gonna go up on the sale board in the next few days.


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By rhyang
From San Jose, CA
Apr 4, 2010
21-August-2012: Me just before heading up the Twilight Pillar (III, 5.8+)

BD's down to 0.5, master cams from orange to purple.

I also have a set of C3's, in which case I bring the BD 0.4.


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By k. riemondy
From Boulder, Co
Apr 4, 2010

you can't go wrong with a mix of c3s, aliens, tcus, and WC zeros for the small stuff. For the big stuff c4s, master and power metolius cams, rigid and flexible friends. 2 sets of offset aliens 1 set of offset tcus, and one set of offset master cams should fill out the rack nicely.
For those really pesky placements consider a set of tricams, hexes, offet brass and alloy nuts, ball nuts, splitter 2cams, pitons and knotted webbing of various size and material.

I think this rack will give you the most placement options, while most effectively minimizing the weight of your wallet.


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By Nick Sullens
From Hong Kong, Hong Kong
Apr 4, 2010

C4s down to .3 and aliens.


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By sunder
From Alsip, Il
Apr 5, 2010
ICE PIT 2011

+1 on all C4 then aliens


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By Aaron M
From Westminster, CO
Apr 5, 2010
Me

Andy Laakmann wrote:
I think one set of C3s and one set of MasterCams (up to Orange) is a perfect combo for a small cam setup... as they each fit different spots. Then I have C4s for everything bigger.


+1 My next purchase of small cams will be the Mastercams up to BD .5 C4 to go with my full set of C3's and C4's.


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By Aaron M
From Westminster, CO
Apr 5, 2010
Me

k. riemondy wrote:
you can't go wrong with a mix of c3s, aliens, tcus, and WC zeros for the small stuff. For the big stuff c4s, master and power metolius cams, rigid and flexible friends. 2 sets of offset aliens 1 set of offset tcus, and one set of offset master cams should fill out the rack nicely. For those really pesky placements consider a set of tricams, hexes, offet brass and alloy nuts, ball nuts, splitter 2cams, pitons and knotted webbing of various size and material. I think this rack will give you the most placement options, while most effectively minimizing the weight of your wallet.


You forgot about the Bigbro's


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By Derek W
Apr 5, 2010
First summit of First Flatiron

Aaron M wrote:
You forgot about the Bigbro's


And at least a double set of Link Cams...


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