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Boy Scouts Gang Roping
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By William Domhart
From Ventucky, CA
Jan 21, 2013
Traverse by HWY 41 Cave

What the hell is up with troops of Boy Scouts descending into Indian Cove and gang roping every decent wall in the entire area? I think we spent more time looking for an open climb to lead than we did actually climbing.


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By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Jan 21, 2013
Dow Williams, 2011

William, in all honesty, going to Indian Cove on a holiday weekend and expecting to get any climbing done short of Rattlesnake Canyon (which has the best routes anyway) would be foolhardy in my opinion. I normally avoid Jtree at all costs on weekend, much less holidays, but had friends there this past weekend and we had the Comic Book area to ourselves...but of course tried and show them Conan's corridor which was a stupid mistake on my part. A complete gong show, most of which you just have to laugh at. So I am not berating you, just saying I still make the same mistake myself every few years.


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By camhead
From Vandalia, Appalachia
Jan 21, 2013
You stay away from mah pig!

William Domhart wrote:
What the hell is up with troops of Boy Scouts descending into Indian Cove and gang roping every decent wall in the entire area? I think we spent more time looking for an open climb to lead than we did actually climbing.


Uhhhh... maybe you should just start climbing harder?


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By John Ryan
From Poncha Springs, CO
Jan 21, 2013
No Name Crack, 5.10, Supercrack Buttress, Indian Creek, Utah

Gang roping! Love it. This happens in my part of the country as well.


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By William Domhart
From Ventucky, CA
Jan 21, 2013
Traverse by HWY 41 Cave

Holiday weekend business aside, the big issue I had was that when you drape 8 or 9 ropes per wall on multiple formations and no one's climbing on half of them. To add to this, the ropes were fixed over night on a lot of the climbs.

Will definitely trek out to the Canyons next time.

And thanks to whoever played Stairway to Heaven on guitar while I was finishing up on Direct South Face...made my night...

Rant complete!


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jan 21, 2013
Bocan

It's just the new self serving mentality...take over the crags, throwing ropes down on people, parking in between 2 spaces etc etc. It's nice to see people getting out and enjoying themselves, but I'd never show up at a crag with 10 people. That's a kind of dickish thing to do.

But whatever, b*tching online won't change a thing. Get up earlier, climb harder or find more obscure stuff. That's all we can do.


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By Christopher Gibson
From Frisco, Texas
Jan 21, 2013
Changing leads.

Most Scouts only get to enjoy two to three days of outdoor climbing a year, let'em get their fill. It happens here certain times of the year also. I like the gang roping thing, ha.


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By flynn
Jan 21, 2013

Been on both sides of this one, though not with the actual Boy Scouts. Those groups should be willing to pull their ropes aside if you really want to climb something they've got a TR dangling on. Be a good lesson for the kids: share the resource, right?

Often, groups will try to pick a cliff that doesn't get much traffic - but not always. It's a pain in the ass being the leader of such a group, for the very reasons you're talking about. You feel badly about tying up the rock, but you have your students to look after and provide with a good experience. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Not trying even a little bit to defend those guys, just giving you a look at the other side.


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By FrankPS
From Atascadero, CA
Jan 21, 2013

I don't see anything wrong with 10 people wanting to learn to climb. I don't condone leaving ropes up on routes not being climbed, but why shouldn't the Boy Scouts have the same opportunity to learn like we did? If they got there before you did, go to a different formation.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is an exaggeration:

William Domhart wrote:
gang roping every decent wall in the entire area



In this thread, people are recommending Indian Cove as a good place for a group of beginners:

mountainproject.com/v/youth-to-joshua-tree/107752538#a_10776>>>


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By Rob Selter
From running springs Ca
Jan 21, 2013
me

My wife and kids and I had atlatis to our selfs tell almost noon on Sunday.
But the gang roping can get really annoying.


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Jan 21, 2013
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

William Domhart wrote:
...the big issue I had was that when you drape 8 or 9 ropes per wall on multiple formations and no one's climbing on half of them...


Did you speak to the troop leader to ask if you could pull a rope so you could lead one of the routes and offer to rehang their rope when cleaning the route?


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By Jon Zucco
From Denver, CO
Jan 21, 2013
yaak crack Red Rock Canyon, NV

Normally, when I encounter a sea of beginners clogging up a crag, I just take it as motivation to get better so I can spend more time at harder crags where it is less likely that I will be even remotely close to gangs of noobs and their ilk.


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By RockyMtnTed
Jan 21, 2013

Aww the little boy scouts took up all the classic 5.6's? Learn to climb harder than boyscouts..


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By Woodchuck ATC
Jan 21, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Christopher Gibson wrote:
Most Scouts only get to enjoy two to three days of outdoor climbing a year, let'em get their fill. It happens here certain times of the year also. I like the gang roping thing, ha.



They need more leaders, more real instructors, and to split up large groups into no more than 6 respectful climbers. Fat chance that will ever happen.


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Jan 21, 2013
El Chorro

William Domhart wrote:
Holiday weekend business aside, the big issue I had was that when you drape 8 or 9 ropes per wall on multiple formations and no one's climbing on half of them. To add to this, the ropes were fixed over night on a lot of the climbs. Will definitely trek out to the Canyons next time. And thanks to whoever played Stairway to Heaven on guitar while I was finishing up on Direct South Face...made my night... Rant complete!


If you're dead set on climbing in popular places on holiday weekends (or any weekend) sometimes you just have to deal with it. Try to make friends and show them that it's not really good for the area if they hang ropes on every route. Well, at least that is the civilized way to deal with the problem.

My way: Pull the unused ropes and climb.


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By Superclimber
Jan 21, 2013

Woodchuck ATC wrote:
They need more leaders, more real instructors, and to split up large groups into no more than 6 respectful climbers. Fat chance that will ever happen.

Na, what they really need is this... solojoeclimbing.com/Joe/Default.aspx


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By William Domhart
From Ventucky, CA
Jan 21, 2013
Traverse by HWY 41 Cave

I will definitely say they weren't A-holes. Having 200 kids around could have been 1000 times worse than it was.


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By William Domhart
From Ventucky, CA
Jan 21, 2013
Traverse by HWY 41 Cave

Chris Miller wrote:
Na, what they really need is this... solojoeclimbing.com/Joe/Default.aspx


LMFAO! Where did you find that? Now I can train to crush those 5.7's from anywhere =)


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Jan 22, 2013
OTL

RockyMtnTed wrote:
Aww the little boy scouts took up all the classic 5.6's? Learn to climb harder than boyscouts..


They were draped on all the 5.8s at Billboard Buttress. Anchors set partway up the climbs and left for 36 hours, it seemed.


Too much hassle to walk up, state the ethics, move their rope and all that bs.
Lots of TRs that could have been set on non-leadable routes in the area - which was the bigger irritant.


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By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Jan 22, 2013

8000 routes in the park. It is pretty easy to find areas that don't get guided. They probably weren't toproping on King Ottos, Palm Reader, Apparition or the Moosedog stuff.

Billboard buttress is always a disaster.


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By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Jan 22, 2013
OTL

Palmreader was our first climb (camped next to it). Moosedog was later that day, after Varnished Wall. We wanted to tick off more 5.8 cracks (should have hiked to Rattlesnake Buttress for sure) - did Campfire Girl with no one around at least.

Weird thing was "holiday weekend", right? 90% of the people left on Sunday. Had Billboard free yesterday morning finally. Of course, Will was one of the people that had to leave for work, though!


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By Sir Wanksalot
From County Jail
Jan 22, 2013

Crag Dweller wrote:
Did you speak to the troop leader to ask if you could pull a rope so you could lead one of the routes and offer to rehang their rope when cleaning the route?


+1. Whatever happened to people being social and nice. I've been to many areas where groups are set up and doing their thing. I have always walked up started to BS and ask questions, next thing you know, your climbing what you want and possibly have some new friends. It's really not that hard, not being a total dick and all. I can't remember a time where I used this tactic and was met with opposition, except in boulder canyon.


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By Unassigned User
Jan 22, 2013

Randy W. wrote:
+1. Whatever happened to people being social and nice. I've been to many areas where groups are set up and doing their thing. I have always walked up started to BS and ask questions, next thing you know, your climbing what you want and possibly have some new friends. It's really not that hard, not being a total dick and all. I can't remember a time where I used this tactic and was met with opposition, except in boulder canyon.


Personally I don't want to climb anywhere with a bunch of people around it. I hate crowds, next time I am in Indian Cove I would say it is worth it to head out away from the park next to crags. I have climbed routes out there that I don't even know the names on but they are awesome no star routes. But then again, you put rock under my feet and I think it is pretty rad.


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By yeego
Jan 25, 2013

A month ago, I led a trip to Indian Cove for a high risk youth group. The whole experience, climbing & location, proved to be well worth it. Climbing is a great tool in teaching positive life and social skills. Minority youth often have no opportunity to learn rock climbing and those that get a small taste often never pursue after the experience. What they learn can make a small difference in their otherwise shitty life & environment. In a way, learning to belay is more powerful. I'm sure you can respect that.

More often, the places I take youth can be challenging due to all the hard core climbers on routes 5.8 and under. The way I see it, locals at any area need to chill out when they see a group of youth. Chances are that will be their only time there. Climbing is about responsibility, appreciation, and fortitude. Why deny others?


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By Brian Hudson
From Lenoir, NC
Jan 25, 2013
Valor Over Discretion (5.8), RRG

yeego wrote:
Why deny others?

Bingo.

When I was a child, it would have been a dream come true to get to rope up and climb. No one wants to see a crag overrun with new climbers or kids, but the reality is that these kids are probably coming for a once-in-a-lifetime, life-lesson-learning visit, or they are the future of climbing. If you're pissed because you can't tick that next classic 5.8 on your list today, consider the incredible impact it may be having on the life of the kid flopping around on it.

And if nobody's flopping around on it, well, tossing out a rant on the internet while wishing you'd been type-A enough to ask to jump on it doesn't help anybody.


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By oldsalt
Jan 25, 2013

I found the same setting at Sand Rock a couple months ago. Every route in the warmup area taken. My first trip outdoors in a long time and I found that...so I went to the guy belaying one of the routes when he had no one on rope. I asked for a ride, and he agreed with a smile.

I could have gotten all of the warmups I wanted, I'm sure. However, the guy dropped me free-fall for about the first 15' on the lower. I took pics of the area and headed back. Still a nice day.


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