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Bowline tie in knot..
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By Keenan Waeschle
From Bozeman, MT
Aug 30, 2011
on top of the RNWF <br />June 2012
everyone I climb with doesn't use a fig 8, if you fall on them they are incredibly hard to untie, especially if you're lazy and don't dress the knot. As for checking the bowline I only do it cause I have read of them coming undone and I like to make sure the thing keeping me off the talus is still there, I do the same with a fig 8. and the "check is a quick glance down every few pitches, doesn't really take more than half a second. I still stand by what I said earlier, fig 8s suck!

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By Joseph Stover
From Batesville, AR
Aug 30, 2011
I've used the bowline only a few times, but find that it is always easy to untie; it doesn't cinch down like a figure 8. It probably has its uses. I think it results in a little bit more force on the anchors (something small and probably insignificant except in circumstances where you don't want to be in the first place).

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By DBarton
From CENTENNIAL, CO
Aug 30, 2011
Moab, Potash Road and Ice Cream Parlor
Why not use this if you are worried about bulk?

putzl.com/~klew/f8x.shtml

Also, if you are complaining about having a hard time undoing a fig 8 after a fall, make sure to cinch the thing up tight before climbing. I never have issues loosening my knot because I take the time to tie a concentric knot and tighten each strand of the 8.

Also, I am "knot" sure why so many people think that a bowline is quicker to tie and that this is a reason to use it. Does it really take too long to tie a fig 8 (I'm thinking 20 seconds)!?

Although, in the end, both knots will do the job, I just prefer the visual that a properly tied fig 8 provides. After all, it is a handsome knot.

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By Cathy
Aug 30, 2011
Me
bradyk wrote:
I get tons of crag-hags just because I tie in with the bowline.


Ha, funny :-)

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By KENtucky
From Richmond, Ky
Aug 30, 2011
FAIL <br />
Why not use this if you are worried about bulk? putzl.com/~klew/f8x.shtml

Thats also great.. thanx

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By coloradotomontana
Aug 30, 2011
me
Joe Huggins wrote:
Yeah, thanks. I wasted oxygen reading that


Considering your eyes were already requiring ATP to be open and function, constantly receiving signals between sleep cycles, I highly doubt any extra O2 was required to read my short post. Perhaps time would have been a more realistic loss?

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By -sp
From East-Coast
Aug 30, 2011
Buenos Dias!
Daryl Allan wrote:
Essentially, you're creating a bowline on a bight but without doing it from a bight; rather with a single strand. Quick, bomber, won't weld together like an 8. If it comes untied, you did something terribly wrong and should probably stick to an 8, 9, etc.. ;)


Exactly what I use, negates all the issue that are generally offered as reason not to use it, and it offers all the advantages generally spewed about why it's great.

But truthfully, at this point I just don't care. I'm fat, don't climb very hard, and might fall, so I like it. If my partner likes the figure-eight, so be it. At some point in your climbing life, you realize it just doesn't matter.

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By Joe Huggins
From Grand Junction
Aug 30, 2011
mmmm....tree
Pat Erley wrote:
Considering your eyes were already requiring ATP to be open and function, constantly receiving signals between sleep cycles, I highly doubt any extra O2 was required to read my short post. Perhaps time would have been a more realistic loss?

Whoa! An intellectual, too...man, you got it all!

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By coloradotomontana
Aug 30, 2011
me
Joe Huggins wrote:
Whoa! An intellectual, too...man, you got it all!


Don't forget about my stunning looks.

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By Joe Huggins
From Grand Junction
Aug 30, 2011
mmmm....tree
Pat Erley wrote:
Don't forget about my stunning looks.

Yeah, hence the word "too"-did you think I was referring to the Star Wars props?

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By Choss Chasin'
From Torrance, CA
Aug 30, 2011
Black Mountain
ilclimberken wrote:
I know how to tie a bowline and though the tie in loops too.. but how do i finish the knot with a stopper knot- kinda like the double fisherman after a figure 8 follow through. Anybody know what im talkin about>?


Don't use just a regular bowline. Use a Yosemite Bowline. No stopper knot needed but I usually tie off my excess with a overhand knot or doubles fisherman.

Don't listen to all the goons out there saying that the Yosemite bowline comes untied. They would be hard pressed to come up with statistics or examples of correctly tied Yosemite bowlines coming undone. Learn your tie in knot well before you start using it though.

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By Josh Olson
From madison, wisconsin
Aug 30, 2011
Looking at a 5.7 crack with Nick
Choss Chasin' wrote:
Don't listen to all the goons out there saying that the Yosemite bowline comes untied. They would be hard pressed to come up with statistics or examples of correctly tied Yosemite bowlines coming undone. Learn your tie in knot well before you start using it though.


rockandice.com/component/conte...

I can't verify that it was tied correctly, but this TNB scared me enough to use a figure 8 all the time.

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By MattB
Aug 30, 2011
^^^ i don't see how the above link has anything to do with a figure 8 vs. bowline...

'nother vote for a bowline being perfectly safe. I'd bet most of the bowline haters have harnesses with quick-release buckles... I wouldn't touch one of those with a 200 foot rope.

one caveat: the loop formed should NOT be used as a belay/anchor loop. I doubt it would fail with any of the generally used backups, though.

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By Andrew Shoemaker
From Garden Valley, ID
Aug 30, 2011
Me on Mt. Evans
I've just always tied in with a square knot. Not bulky at all and easy to tie.

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By dorseyec
Aug 30, 2011
MattB wrote:
^^^ i don't see how the above link has anything to do with a figure 8 vs. bowline...


I don't know how accurate or true it is but it clearly talks about it at the bottom of the page.... Something about some girl knot tightening her knot(bowline) and it coming untied, who knows though she could have only tied it halfway to start with.

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By MattB
Aug 30, 2011
Thanks... it snuck in at the bottom there... plenty of stories of folks not doubling back their eights and plummeting, too.

And no real climber hasn't strained for that extra 5 inches at the top of a pitch, which only the bowline affords... or the square knot, i guess.

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By Erboutitman
From farmingdale ny
Aug 31, 2011
I've seen an 8 knot hold with only a single pass through the knot. I don't recommend it but its pretty beast.

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By S.Stelli
From Colorado Springs, CO
Aug 31, 2011
I tie in with both the figure 8 follow through, and the bowline w/yosemite finish. (not at the same time though, ha!!)

I use the figure 8 when I'm doing multi-pitch climbing, or long single pitches where I'll belay from the top. Anything where I'll be on the rope for a while.

I use the Yosemite Bowline for quick single pitch, or "sport" climbing, climbing at the gym. Anything where I'll only be on the rope for a few minutes.

I like BOTH knots equally, and I treat them the same. Tie the thing PROPERLY, check them often, and ensure that I check them AGAIN. Neither knot has ever given me a reason to use one or the other for any reason, other than the knot lending itself to the situation better.

No - I don't believe that a properly tied Yosemite Bowline will ever come undone. Improperly tied, YES. But an improperly tied knot failing goes for any knot ever used, in any situation, ever.

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By Gregger Man
Aug 31, 2011
gg
clevernamehere wrote:
[...] I like BOTH knots equally [...]


+1

I use the figure 8 any time my partner's life could depend on my tie-in knot (multi-pitch) since it isn't viable (or fair) for them to visually double check my bowline from a few steps away like it is for the 8. On single pitch I use the double bowline.

It's fast and solid:


[note: The Sooooper 8 is probably the safest way to go]


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By thedogfather
From Las Vegas, NV
Aug 31, 2011
ilclimberken wrote:
I know how to tie a bowline and though the tie in loops too.. but how do i finish the knot with a stopper knot- kinda like the double fisherman after a figure 8 follow through. Anybody know what im talkin about>?

I think the terminology of "double bowline" can be confusing since there seem to be more than one of these. For sport climbing, I always use the "double bowline" or more accurately the bowline with retrace. You get two bowlines for the price of one, not just two loops on one part of it. It doesn't bind up on a fall and is easy to tie and untie.
I learned it from a visiting German who claims it is widely used there for sport climbing.


retraced bowline.  Note that if the finish end backs out through the loop, you still have a full bowline left.  And, you are doubled through the harness.
retraced bowline. Note that if the finish end backs out through the loop, you still have a full bowline left. And, you are doubled through the harness.

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By Buff Johnson
Aug 31, 2011
smiley face
Andrew Shoemaker wrote:
I've just always tied in with a square knot. Not bulky at all and easy to tie.


This is the knot I'm not understanding being used here, and I've seen it referred to a few times. Anyone have a pic of the tie-in?

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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Aug 31, 2011
Mathematical!
Gregger Man wrote:
On single pitch I use the double bowline. It's fast and solid: youtu.be/PkKkJAx9O8c


I can tie a figure 8 much faster than that guy tied his knot.

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By Gregger Man
Aug 31, 2011
gg
Taylor Ogden wrote:
I can tie a figure 8 much faster than that guy tied his knot.


I'll race you :0)
That wasn't a time trial.

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By Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Aug 31, 2011
Mathematical!
Gregger Man wrote:
I'll race you :0) That wasn't a time trial.


CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

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By Gregger Man
Aug 31, 2011
gg
(Gauntlet down)
If I were to accept your challenge of a knot-tying showdown my conditions would include the following:

  • start timer, tie in, stop timer
  • climb something and take a 15' whipper
  • lower
  • start timer, untie, stop timer

also
  • ten paces
  • the seconds must be able to send .13d

Meh.

(Gauntlet still down)

The time difference between the two is probably negligible when tying in.
When I'm stuck climbing plastic (and falling a lot) it does save time and effort getting out of it a couple dozen times.

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