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Boulder Canyon accident
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By ABB
Sep 5, 2012

Elephant Rocks, Boulder Canyon, mid/ late ’90’s…belaying my buddy (‘seconding’ our pitch)...40’ away I see potentially extremely dangerous situation playing-out...hollered over and most diplomatically suggested different rigging...no time for niceties or ‘mind if I offer a suggestion’. Party clearly heard me, shrugged shoulders and resumed folly. Offered to provide assistance/guidance, help rig/inspect anchor...more shrugs, ‘we’re OK’. Minutes later, many sirens, emergency vehicles, rescue crews...groundfall, broken back, serious internal injuries, serious head wound, multiple fractures. To hell with pride.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Sep 5, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

Colonel Mustard wrote:
When it comes to threads like this, I look at it as if it were my friend. I wouldn't post a lot of speculative BS, just condolences. It could be your buddy or loved one and I hope those close to the deceased are finding solace.


+1. Condolences to the friends and family of the deceased, and of the injured. They will need help recovering as well.


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By Weekend Warrior
From Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2012

Jake Jones wrote:
I wonder if most of these people saying "don't say shit, Darwin's Law, blah blah" have ever seen a really gruesome scene right in front of them. It's quite a thing to see another human gurgling blood and gasping for breath, writhing in obvious agony and groaning gutteral sounds, or screaming violently and uncontrollably. If I see something that could cause injury or death, I'll say something. Most fuckups in climbing can cause injury or death. I would rather some tool punch me in my face for wounding his pride than see something awful and have to scrape someone off the ground. And by all means, if I'm backclipped, belaying wrong, anchoring wrong- whatever, please say something. I will be grateful.


Exactly. Plus, even if they don't like what they hear in the moment, they will remember it going forward. The darwinistic point of view is chicken shit.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Sep 5, 2012
Bocan

I agree it's good to say something to avoid a tragic accident, but it's suprising how often that isn't recieved well. Most people when you take them quitely aside are pretty responsive, but I've seen alot of "we got this". Which is totally their choice and decision, and often times we'll leave a spot if we see situations like that brewing.


The lighting storm example is a great one. Same thing on the 4th of July trailhead. Guy dragging his GF up into the hail and lightening storm we just descended out of. Loudest thunder I've ever heard in that valley and the look of terror or her eyes was evidient. We warned them of what was totally obvious and got the "nah we're fine" response.

I guess all you can do is try and hope that something terrible doesn't happen. I know if it was me and I'm sure it has been, I would want to know as well.

I value my life WAY over my pride.


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By John Fatseas
From Denver, CO
Sep 5, 2012
Lake City, CO <br />mixin it up

Jake Jones wrote:
I wonder if most of these people saying "don't say shit, Darwin's Law, blah blah" have ever seen a really gruesome scene right in front of them. It's quite a thing to see another human gurgling blood and gasping for breath, writhing in obvious agony and groaning gutteral sounds, or screaming violently and uncontrollably. If I see something that could cause injury or death, I'll say something. Most fuckups in climbing can cause injury or death. I would rather some tool punch me in my face for wounding his pride than see something awful and have to scrape someone off the ground. And by all means, if I'm backclipped, belaying wrong, anchoring wrong- whatever, please say something. I will be grateful.


+1


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 5, 2012
Stones

I've seen gruesome ...and just like on this forum people call me names and don't listen...climbing, substance abuse, obesity, drinking and driving...life....u name it. Some will never learn and its OK. Deal with it. Don't preach just be there as a stepping stone. Such is life...


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By mike c
From nederland
Sep 6, 2012
keeping it cool

in my earlier post i did not want to come accross as the more experienced climber looking to spray advice, pontificate,etc. i simply wanted to say if i see someone doing something really dumb, leading toward a disaster, i'm gonna speak up! if there's even a slight chance that someone's about to rap past their rope ends, i will ask them how long their rope is and what their intent is. they may feel whatever they want......i'd rather be percieved as a control freak than the climber driving around the corner and seeing a death. if anyone sees me doing something wrong or improperly, please do interwhatever!!!!!!i see badasses crossing over to dumbass all the time.In conclusion, i want to restate if anyone is out climbing and you see any climber(beginer,intermediate,or expert) doing something that might lead to disaster......speak up! i thought it might be nice to just simply " help" offer a suggestion.


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 6, 2012
Stones

I say things when I see a rope end not touching or something but there's a difference between help and spray. One example: as im walking down the Grand Teton well lets say not exactly briskly two people asked me several times if they could carry my bag down I said no then they stopped at a spring and I on purpose did not stop where they were to just get peace and quiet. So what do they do? Reported me to ranger as being ' injured' so he comes up all concerned like those foulks said this and that. I was like : im fine don't worry about it. I will ask for help if I need it. I k ow they meant well but kinda annoying still...


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By J mac
Sep 6, 2012
Zermatt

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
I've seen gruesome ...and just like on this forum people call me names and don't listen...climbing, substance abuse, obesity, drinking and driving...life....u name it. Some will never learn and its OK. Deal with it. Don't preach just be there as a stepping stone. Such is life...


This is a worthless point. Nobody drinks and drives because of lack of experience driving. People do make climbing mistakes due to lack of experience.


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 6, 2012
Stones

John McHugh wrote:
This is a worthless point. Nobody drinks and drives because of lack of experience driving. People do make climbing mistakes due to lack of experience.

Not necessary. Im talking about taking risks in general. People are aware of their lack of experience yet they choose to put themselves in a situation where they will be challenged in ways they may not be able to handle the situation optimally. Experience d climbers will push limits to be challenged. Its all about choices. U choose to step your foot outside the door your life is your own.


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By Andy Novak
From Golden, Co
Sep 7, 2012
Living the High Life.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
So what do they do? Reported me to ranger as being ' injured' so he comes up all concerned like those foulks said this and that.


Maybe they heard you spraying worthless advice and incoherent ramblings and thought you were suffering from HACE?


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Sep 7, 2012

Just today I was climbing in Rifle canyon when I noticed the person belaying next to me frequently let go of the rope while talking to other climbers on the ground. His excuse was that he was using a GriGri and he had been using it for ten years without incident and he climbs 5.13d. Well, the worst mistake you can make is to think you are "too experienced" or smart to make a noob mistake that could result in injury. Many top climbers have died from stupid mistakes that they thought could only happen in a gym with some noob partner. They were clearly wrong. Dont get lazy, dont think because you have been climbing for so long that there is no way anything could happen. Too often I visit advanced sport crags with veteran climbers hanging around and I see that they are making all of the same mistakes the noobs at the slab crag next door are making. Personally, I think it is really sad that someone can be experienced enough to climb 5.13 but they still dont know the potential consequences of lazy or improper belaying techniques.


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Sep 7, 2012
modern man

20 kN wrote:
Just today I was climbing in Rifle canyon when I noticed the person belaying next to me frequently let go of the rope while talking to other climbers on the ground. His excuse was that he was using a GriGri and he had been using it for ten years without incident and he climbs 5.13d. Well, the worst mistake you can make is to think you are "too experienced" or smart to make a noob mistake that could result in injury. Many top climbers have died from stupid mistakes that they thought could only happen in a gym with some noob partner. They were clearly wrong. Dont get lazy, dont think because you have been climbing for so long that there is no way anything could happen. Too often I visit advanced sport crags with veteran climbers hanging around and I see that they are making all of the same mistakes the noobs at the slab crag next door are making. Personally, I think it is really sad that someone can be experienced enough to climb 5.13 but they still dont know the potential consequences of lazy or improper belaying techniques.


lol, when the gri-gri came out it was known as a hands free belay device. then a bunch of safety nuts got all anal on it and tried to ruin it for everyone.

I will bet my personal fortune that the odds of falling to your death while being belayed with an ATC are much higher than falling to your death with a grigri being used with no brakehand, especially when rock fall is involved.

Did you tell the guy at Rifle that testing gear and safety are your hobbies?


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Sep 7, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
Not necessary. Im talking about taking risks in general. People are aware of their lack of experience yet they choose to put themselves in a situation where they will be challenged in ways they may not be able to handle the situation optimally. Experience d climbers will push limits to be challenged. Its all about choices. U choose to step your foot outside the door your life is your own.


Wrong. The debate was climbing related, you had little to add so your input then extended to driving and other mishaps. You chose your criteria so that you could once again work in the fact that you're a nurse. That is the pure, unadulterated definition of spray.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Sep 7, 2012
Bocan

20 kN wrote:
Just today I was climbing in Rifle canyon when I noticed the person belaying next to me frequently let go of the rope while talking to other climbers on the ground. His excuse was that he was using a GriGri and he had been using it for ten years without incident and he climbs 5.13d. Well, the worst mistake you can make is to think you are "too experienced" or smart to make a noob mistake that could result in injury. Many top climbers have died from stupid mistakes that they thought could only happen in a gym with some noob partner. They were clearly wrong. Dont get lazy, dont think because you have been climbing for so long that there is no way anything could happen. Too often I visit advanced sport crags with veteran climbers hanging around and I see that they are making all of the same mistakes the noobs at the slab crag next door are making. Personally, I think it is really sad that someone can be experienced enough to climb 5.13 but they still dont know the potential consequences of lazy or improper belaying techniques.


Especially since it seems that young climbers are climbing over 5.12 within a year these days it seems. Maybe it's the gym culture that helps them get so amazingly strong so fast. Equating how hard you climb with your level of knowledge isn't aways comparable, even tho I'm sure quite a few people's ego would disagree.

haha heck...come to think of it, how long you've been climbing isn't always an indicator either. I guess it really comes down to do you have the skills OR are willing to learn, or you don't. I've seen new climbers invest the time to learn the skill sets properly with a open mind and the converse people who have been climbing forever and have aquired 30 years of dangerous habits.

One of the things I enjoy when climbing multipitch is having my partner critique my placements and anchors. I always get new views on creative placements and different ways to build my anchors, along with what I could have done better. Just more arrows in the quiver.


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 7, 2012
Stones

Jake Jones wrote:
Wrong. The debate was climbing related, you had little to add so your input then extended to driving and other mishaps. You chose your criteria so that you could once again work in the fact that you're a nurse. That is the pure, unadulterated definition of spray.

That is DRINKING and driving ....different from SOBER and driving. Yea one thing can be said about the tragic accident : would somebody try to stop a scrambler in BC trying to set a tr? No. Do rocks break? Yes! I've been in Boulderado many times and set trs there for beginners. I've seen many scrambling to set trs. This was an accident. Besides nursing and climbing are my life and I apply them to life and visa versa. So I write about what I know the most.


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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Sep 7, 2012
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after a day of cragging.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
That is DRINKING and driving ....different from SOBER and driving. Yea one thing can be said about the tragic accident : would somebody try to stop a scrambler in BC trying to set a tr? No. Do rocks break? Yes! I've been in Boulderado many times and set trs there for beginners. I've seen many scrambling to set trs. This was an accident. Besides nursing and climbing are my life and I apply them to life and visa versa. So I write about what I know the most.



I'm a nurse!
I'm a nurse!


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By BigJuggsjohnson
Sep 7, 2012
Stones

Oh and I don't drink and drive EVER! ...neither do I smoke or drink or get high on drugs or eat some flowers off side of road or do bath salts ....and my life is freakin sweet in general! .....that's some 'real spray' for yo all. Enjoy!


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Sep 7, 2012
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
Oh and I don't drink and drive EVER! ...neither do I smoke or drink or get high on drugs or eat some flowers off side of road or do bath salts ....and my life is freakin sweet in general! .....that's some 'real spray' for yo all. Enjoy!

Maybe it is time to try that, since nothing else has worked...
A good hard trip can really burn down the ego and put life in perspective.


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By Buff Johnson
Sep 7, 2012
smiley face

or lithium


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By Jeremy Hand
Sep 7, 2012
slopey

BigJuggsjohnson wrote:
Oh and I don't drink and drive EVER! ...neither do I smoke or drink or get high on drugs or eat some flowers off side of road or do bath salts ....and my life is freakin sweet in general! .....that's some 'real spray' for yo all. Enjoy!



THEY'RE NOT DRUGS THEY'RE 'PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS' RIGHT?!?!!??

and for the sake of everyone in your life and more specifically the MP community please, PLEASE resume taking your script.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Sep 7, 2012
Pulling a small roof at 2/3 height on Mission Impossible.  Adam Sanders photo.

20 kN wrote:
Many top climbers have died from stupid mistakes that they thought could only happen in a gym with some noob partner.


Is this really true? Not trying to bust balls, but I can't think of any examples of "top climbers" dying from "stupid mistakes", unless you want to count pre-meditated free-soloing as a "stupid mistake" (fair enough).


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By Rick Blair
From Denver
Sep 7, 2012
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I think it works quite well, depending on rope thickness and sheath quality, it belays very smooth.  Great to lower with.  You gotta love over engineering.  $3 at a gear swap!

Tony B wrote:
A good hard acid trip can really burn down the ego and put life in perspective.

I have tears in the corners of my eyes..... I am laughing so hard.


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By Debbie Vischer
From Loveland
Sep 7, 2012
Hangin' by a Thumb in Estes

Jake Jones wrote:
I wonder if most of these people saying "don't say shit, Darwin's Law, blah blah" have ever seen a really gruesome scene right in front of them. It's quite a thing to see another human gurgling blood and gasping for breath, writhing in obvious agony and groaning gutteral sounds, or screaming violently and uncontrollably. If I see something that could cause injury or death, I'll say something. Most fuckups in climbing can cause injury or death. I would rather some tool punch me in my face for wounding his pride than see something awful and have to scrape someone off the ground. And by all means, if I'm backclipped, belaying wrong, anchoring wrong- whatever, please say something. I will be grateful.


+1 I too am always grateful for feedback and will definitely give it if I see something "bad" being done.


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By John D
Sep 7, 2012

Monomaniac wrote:
Is this really true? Not trying to bust balls, but I can't think of any examples of "top climbers" dying from "stupid mistakes", unless you want to count pre-meditated free-soloing as a "stupid mistake" (fair enough).


I don't really want to support his point, but Todd Skinner's death comes to mind with a worn out harness being the cause. Michael Reardons death also seemed kind of silly since he basically got washed out to sea while standing at the base of a climb.


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