First bolt is pretty far off the deck. I'd call this at least PG-13 if not R... Falling before clipping the first bolt would not be pleasant. Caveat Emptor... Can also be done as one long pitch with long runners. Can be TR'd from shared anchor on P1 of R3.
"Climber's Left" from R3. Rap off the back and descend gully if you top out.
Bolts, Gear, Chains
Feb 19, 2007
Jerry, if you give this route an R, what do you give Chiboni ? What about Shanashee ? Giving BTYD an R just makes the whole system fall apart. If a leader gets scared on BTYD he can easily downclimb. No big deal.
Feb 19, 2007
Such is the way of the modern sport climber. Danger is not part of the experience anymore.
|By Jerry Cagle|
From: Tucson, AZ
Apr 30, 2007
Dear Mr. Baker,
Apparently you don't have a clear understanding of the system: FYI an "R" modifier references the potential severity of an injury in the event of a FALL. Last time I checked, if you are downclimbing you haven't yet fallen... (although if you observed me downclimbing it might be hard to ascertain the difference). Foithermore, if you read my comment closely you would note I qualified the "R" with "at least PG-13). Admittedly subtle, but relevant detail. Subjective? Perhaps you can answer another question on another topic that's been keeping me up nights: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?
As to your contention that you can "easily" downclimb the opening moves, I doubt that many average climbers would agree. A number of the moves require positions that are well "off-center". Falling from those postions is difficult to recover from as you sail groundward. I know. When you get to the point that you consider climbing UP a .10 "easy" then you're considerably more skilled than the average climber. Climbing down is always more difficult than climbing up. I suggest you try some downclimbing so that you don't have to take my word for it. I'd suggest starting on something "easy" like the opening moves on "All In Good Time" at Munchkinland.
Dear Mr. Jimbo, Who you calling a modern sport climber? I was leading run-outs on stoppers and hexes (no SLCD's) while you were still shitting yellow and crying for your momma's... I wouldn't argue if you accused me of being past my prime, washed-up even, but don't lob epithets blindly when you know not of what or whom you speak. Alas, such is the way of the Modern Spray-Meister.
Thanks in advance to you both for your indulgence. If you require further clarification on this matter do not hesitate to contact me.
Apr 30, 2007
Oh.............no need to call me "Mr. Baker"...........call me "Mr. John Baker".... (with apologies to Steve Martin).
Jerry, if you're an experienced trad climber and have done your share of R-rated routes, then I won't argue with you. My opinion is not worth much. I was just picturing a newish trad climber doing this route and then assuming he was good-to-go on 5.10R. He would be in for a shock if his next selection was Shanashee or Reefer Madness.
|By Jerry Cagle|
From: Tucson, AZ
Jul 4, 2007
Dr. Mr. John Baker, You're OK. I can't claim a raft of "R" ascents on trad gear... I've done a few, mostly by accident though. The older I get the less I care to hang all my bacon on a single hook...
Oct 13, 2007
You don't need a big rack for this one- just a few smaller pieces. Definitely not R. You could probably use a spotter if you are concerned about the first move and there is a nice ledge to make the first clip from. There is some distance between pro at times, but that is usually when the climbing is really easy and ledgy. Good route to do over at the Rupleys.
Jan 27, 2008
rating: 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b PG13
A highly entertaining, three star, 5.10b climb that allows the intermediate leader a chance to practice some moderately run-out face moves, and then make a fun transition to a lie-back/ jam-pull over the swelling roll of the rock just before the end of the active climbing. I agree with Jerry, PG-13 or R as you choose -- a tumble from the lower face could jam your ankles somewhat severely towards your knees...
You can continue this climb without much rope drag to the top of the tower.
Jerry, I agree with all your comments up above! Thanks for your commonsense approach to safety here.
Incidentally 273, is the precise number of "orthodox" angels capable of pinhead-dancing on a #3 gauge standard brass pin. Heretics may see 274.
From: Casa do Cacete
Feb 13, 2008
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b PG13
The easy ledge to clip from is pretty much irrelevant, the danger is falling before you get to that ledge. If the landing area were flat dirt, I don't think this would merit a protection rating. But it's strewn with a bunch of rocks perfect for tweaking your ankle on. I'm not sure a spotter could keep you from landing on those rocks. Also, my best guess is that only a solid 5.12 and up climber could easily downclimb the initial moves.
I think PG-13 is about right.
Feb 13, 2008
Jerry you're not that old, you're as young as you feel. I've got 30 years of climbing behind me, so I'm not a young pup myself.
You, as a member of the old guard, must admit that the definition of "R" has changed in the last 15 years or so. I think you would also agree that sport climbing is mostly to blame for this.
I was in no way disparaging your climbing ability I was merely commenting on a the current mind set of many a climber.
|By John Hayes|
From: Bend, OR
Jan 4, 2010
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
I recall that Bob Kerry and I had quite an adventure putting up the first pitch. That was the day when Ben Burnam took his big fall on "Crash and Burnam" and I had to down climb from the ledge to help with the rescue before we had the first bolt placed. We tried really hard to minimize bolts so we hadn't yet placed the second bolt and I was standing on a horn that I had used to tie off a sling while "bopping around" looking for a piece in the shallow flared crack half way up the climb. Just as I thought I might have found a placement, the flake broke, the nut pulled, and I went flying! A micro-crystal held the sling on the remains of the horn and Bob caught me just above the ledge...whew! That's why there's now a bolt next to the "crack." After that, the climb up to the first bolt didn't seem very scary at all. I have to admit that I went back and did the route a few months ago and the moves up to the first bolt seemed way harder than I remembered; though, I still wouldn't rate it an 'R.' Falling off getting to the first bolt wouldn't be good, but that's true for most routes where you can't clip the first bolt from the ground. Just work the moves until you feel confident and you'll be fine.
Nov 25, 2012
rating: 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b R
I thought I was on one of the r climbs. Not a fan of the guidebook. I would agree with R rating, you will hurt yourself botching those initial moves. Once you clip, I felt it to be nice movement once you figure it out!