booty cams! free vs. aid vs. won't touch

Over the years I have collected a ton of booty gear beach combing the base of El Cap and going on recon missions up gear sucking beginner routes.

I showed a buddy of mine my booty rack recently and he scoffed in horror when he heard that I climb with the pro that I've found hanging from trees or stuck in cracks.

I haven't accrued quite enough personally financed and complimentary gear to have my free and clean aid climbing racks separated. I most certainly use booty gear on routes where I'm just yarding on metal. On occasion, sure, I'm even using booty gear to free climb when I need an extra piece or two or three of a requisite size.

He looked at me like I was asking for a death wish. I ask him about the times he's spent in the creek using a massive consolidation of gear from friends and strangers and asked him if he knew the history behind every single cam he placed on Jolly Rancher. Right.

Questions I pose to you:

Are you hyper sensitive about the cams you use? For free climbing? Less so when aid climbing? What's the most mank non-passive pro you've found that you've kept on your rack and have been satisfied with its performance? Do you retire booty gear that visually looks okay? Have you ever taken pro to someone to have it tested beyond visual inspection? Why?

If you big wall clean aid and free climb, have you found yourself investing in a free climbing only rack to prolong the life of your gear? The C1 abuse my aliens have been taking this season is, I think, almost enough to warrant retiring them from big walls.

I searched around the forums. I don't think I'm resurrecting a deadbeat topic. Apologies if so. Send me reference links and I'll shut up.

Also, I buy a lot of gear from the MP community. "Never taken big falls". Sure, whatever. Pictures look all right. I'll take it!

Cheers,
Gear Curious

I"ve bought the following used from various places, usually didn't know much history:

Blue-Orange Aliens, 2000 stamp
Red Metolius 4CU
1-2 BD camalots
Full set BD stoppers
Full set RP nuts
Loads of biners

I've found or bootied the following:

Camp locking biner
Petzl Atache locker
3.8 HB Wales Quadcam
.5 BD Camalot
4,5,7 BD stoppers
7 WC Rock
10 DMM Walnut
Camp belay plate
Several nylon runners
Loads more biners

I use all of that stuff on a regular basis. Can't say that I've fallen on all of the gear but also can't say that I think about it at all. I think most gear can be visually inspected easily enough and I try to never trust my life to one piece of gear. Obviously you can't do that w/ the biners/belay plate but those things don't break because they are old... they only break if you misuse them.

Tell your friend... to each his own. If you like climbing on the gear then climb on it.

I will gladly use booty gear, used gear, or gear I don't know the complete history of, because its easy to visually inspect. I have bought a few cams from ebay from someone that said they did not take lead falls on, but after I got them I did not believe this anymore. There were definitely some notches in the lobes which are indicative of a lead fall, but gear is still good after lead falls! Micro-fractures are a myth also. So as long as the gear cables aren't frayed, rusted, or severely kinked, it is probably safe to say your ok. Like Ryan said, don't trust your life to just one piece.

I only use booty gear to protect routes I know I won't fall on.

This whole post smacks of someone bored at work on a Monday, in which case you can afford to buy yourself whatever gear you want. So why not just leave the booty for the real dirtbags? : )

On the other hand, if you want more, just visit Tahquitz. In two days climbing there last week, I could have put together a new rack if I had had a nut tool to do a little cleaning with. Mostly mank, sure, but a couple of nice new C4s on some of the more popular trade routes.

Touche.

Just trying to figure out whether I should sell all this unnecessary booty gear to get shiny new gear for just my yuppie, posh free climbing. :)

Not really one for making up stories, but it also feels a bit sketch writing, "FS cams. No idea if they've had falls. Look at the pics if you want 'em."

I would use them. If I sold them I would be up front and honest about them being bootied. Then the buyer can decide.

Michael Ybarra wrote: Mostly mank, sure, but a couple of nice new C4s on some of the more popular trade routes.

Those C4's are mine, so you can return them at your convenience. You can keep the mank.

"This whole post smacks of someone bored at work on a Monday"

That describes about 85% of the content on the internet. Who can get enough cute kitties?

Why are micro-cracks a myth? I'm no materials engineer, but the concept seems sound. I've heard of materials labs that will examine gear with an electron microscope for suck cracks. Are they a rip-off?

Because I'm such a sissy climber, I've never taken a lead fall (there I've said it), but I might be concerned about using such gear in a high fall potential situation.

BrianH wrote:Why are micro-cracks a myth? I'm no materials engineer, but the concept seems sound. I've heard of materials labs that will examine gear with an electron microscope for suck cracks.

What I've heard is that microcracks are actually more relevant in high temperature applications for aluminum. Think jet turbines and such. This makes since if microfractures change the heat expansion characteristics enough to cause failure. You should still inspect biners for hairline fractures which are visible though.

Dominion Rognstad wrote: What I've heard is that microcracks are actually more relevant in high temperature applications for aluminum. Think jet turbines and such. This makes since if microfractures change the heat expansion characteristics enough to cause failure. You should still inspect biners for hairline fractures which are visible though.

If there was aluminum in the turbine section of a jet engine...I would recommend not flying in that jet.

I'd be most concerned about any of the slings on bootied cams or outright bootied slings, if you have any. You can inspect cables and most of the metal for damage, but the slings can be damaged, invisibly, by heat or chemicals.

I've used bootied nuts and carabiners as bail anchors, and despite what I said above, I used a brand new looking 7mm cordolette that I found at the top of a popular top roping area, which looked like it had been dropped since it was shortened up and clipped to a locker. I eventually used it as a bail anchor.

Stop the presses! this guy used a DROPPED CORDELETTE.

I wouldn't climb with him. What if it had microcracks? Maybe the previous owner bought it on sale? Had it been used in the daytime? Dirty? non-pretty colors...

Rob Dillon wrote:Stop the presses! this guy used a DROPPED CORDELETTE. I wouldn't climb with him. What if it had microcracks? Maybe the previous owner bought it on sale? Had it been used in the daytime? Dirty? non-pretty colors...

I would get an x-ray of that cordelette ASAP, that's the only way you can truly see those microcracks.

As far as I can tell, the concern is silly. Does anyone have any data on broken cams? Or even ANECDOTES? Besides aliens and link cams.

I think people who shy away from used gear generally just don't know what they're talking about. If I look at the cam and it looks okay, then it IS okay, it can go on the rack and I won't think about it ever again.

Pretty soon someone will bust out the "yeah but how much is your life worth?" line and the thread will have officially reached the lowest common denominator.

I've whipped a few times on .75 that I spent over a year trying to remove from a line (I only climbed it a few times, just spread out). Its an old fat tri cam. I love that thing.

Eric Fjellanger wrote:Pretty soon someone will bust out the "yeah but how much is your life worth?" line and the thread will have officially reached the lowest common denominator.

I will rephrase my original thought, then. However, despite you're characterization of that argument, it's still the bottom line.

Anyways, the OP described two VERY different scenarios for finding gear: the base of the Captain--meaning who knows how far they fell--and gear stuck on beginner climbs. IMHO, you can't begin to compare the two. Stuck cam on Munginella. No problem. If the sling looks ratty, replace it. A cam or biner dropped from the Shield headwall? I'll pass. A rock dropped that distance would explode. I'm no metallurgist, but I have to assume it's going to have the potential to cause serious, if unseen, damage. Why risk it? After all...

I've heard that you can take climbing gear to a hospital and they'll x-ray it for free to check for damage, at least Holston Valley Medical in Tn does. You could always try this route with used gear.

I will only climb on bootied Aliens. I have two on the rack, a blue and a grey. I bootied a purple years back and sold it. My thinking is if there is no body at the base of the route and the Alien is still stuck in the crack, then it must be OK to use.

I would be very interested to hear a story from anybody about gear that fell a long way to the deck, and looked fine, but later failed because of the fall.

Maybe there are such stories! I don't know. I have never heard one. Data suggests aluminum gear does not work this way.

Oh yeah, I use an ATC guide that got dropped of the first pitch of a climb(never let women borrow your gear). I'm not sure what terminal velocity is for gear, but my guess is it doesn't take much distance to reach it. Visual inspection showed no issues, infact I watched it hit the ground about 2 feet from me. It's been probably 3 years since that happened and its caught a lot of falls since then.