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Bolts for private property
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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 16, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

My bud has some rock on their property and wants to bolt it.

It's about 60 ft high, a bank face, maybe like 5.10 and offers no pro opportunities and nothing to rig anchors up from the top really.

What is the 'standard' accepted bolt(s) currently? 3/8" 1/2"

How long?

I know about bolts from may years ago when I was a caver part of a caving conservative/club - but that was 25 yrs ago and there were not Fixe bolts and such back them.

Suggestions?

Thanks


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By Ryan Williams
Administrator
From London (sort of)
Apr 16, 2013
El Chorro

It totally depends on the type of rock and the environment.

3/8" is still the standard in most places, but you will see more and more 1/2" bolts around.

In terms of length, 2.5" is probably fine for the type of rock you're going to see in NY, but longer bolts are needed if you are bolting in softer rock.

Being in NY, I'd say you need to use stainless bolts and AND hangers, but there are others that will say you don't need stainless.

Probably best to speak to someone who is developing in the area. I know there aren't many sport climbers up there, but there are some people who use bolts in the Dacks and they know what they are doing.


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 16, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Thanks Ryan,
From what I have seen on sport routes in the 'Dacks thus far, most if not all seem to be stainless due to I don't see any rusting factors on them.

Thanks for the info.

It's all good rock BTW - same type of rock as seen in the 'Dacks.

I'd prob feel better about using stainless keeping in mind our kind of weather we experience here per se.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Apr 16, 2013
Stoked...

NYClimber wrote:
Thanks Ryan, From what I have seen on sport routes in the 'Dacks thus far, most if not all seem to be stainless due to I don't see any rusting factors on them. Thanks for the info. It's all good rock BTW - same type of rock as seen in the 'Dacks. I'd prob feel better about using stainless keeping in mind our kind of weather we experience here per se.


If the money is no issue SS all the way baby! If it's not going into a water streak SS is really not necessary... glue-ins are also an option as they can be removed as well at a later date and replaced using the same hole.


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 16, 2013
Grande Grotto

CaptainMo wrote:
If the money is no issue SS all the way baby! If it's not going into a water streak SS is really not necessary... glue-ins are also an option as they can be removed as well at a later date and replaced using the same hole.


In NY and anywhere really, SS should be SOP. Using PS is really short sighted (penny wise and pound foolish if you will). A QUALITY all SS setup can be had for ~$4 (maybe less).

The effort needed to replace a glue-in, especially using the same hole is substantial. Sure it can be done but you'll want it to be a LONG, LONG time from now. Again, GlueIns should be SS ONLY.

As noted above, WHAT you use is very much dependent on the rock. Not something easily "learned" online but we can certainly give "tips".


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 16, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

I have drilled and installed bolts years ago back when they started a Rawl drives and such...then the expansion bolts started to emerge and we started using them.

I recall it being important to drill the hole deep enuff so the bold can get far enuff in so the hanger is flush with the rock face surface. Usually we would drill our hole slightly deeper than the bolt itself, being sure we had good solid rock, no flakes, etc. Dust was then blown out of the hole using a small length of rubber tubing inserted in the hole and the dust blown out. We used only special drills sold by climbing bolt manufacturers designed for climbing itself, and at that time used a hand drill being sure NOT to wiggle the drill all around thus making our holes oversize, etc.

Once done, our hanger was placed and the bolt drawn up nice and tight to the hanger.

Of course bolts seem a lot higher quality these days and the day of the Rawl 'button head' bolt is gone, as well as the Leeper hangers back in the day!


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 16, 2013
...

"Bolts for private property".


There's a difference?


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 16, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Locker wrote:
"Bolts for private property". There's a difference?


Well the 'diff' is - we don't need permission and such form the climbing community, etc.

LOL.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 16, 2013
...

"we don't need permission and such form the climbing community, etc."


It's the reverse for me...

I don't NEED any fucking permission from squat to put a route up on public land...(Climbing community? Ethics? Huh?)

Private land? Well...

;-)


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 16, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Locker wrote:
"we don't need permission and such form the climbing community, etc." It's the reverse for me... I don't NEED any fucking permission from squat to put a route up on public land...(Climbing community? Ethics? Huh?) Private land? Well... ;-)


: )


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By teece303
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Apr 16, 2013
Aiding.

If I'm ever out in NY, we must climb together, Mike!

As for Locker, he knows what he is talking about, ask him for advice. Just be warned, he's a little crazy. :-)


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 17, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

Timothy.Klein wrote:
If I'm ever out in NY, we must climb together, Mike! As for Locker, he knows what he is talking about, ask him for advice. Just be warned, he's a little crazy. :-)


LOL! That I know about Locker already! LOL. He's a good shite he is. Just kidding Locker!

OK sounds good Tim!

Thanks again!


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 17, 2013
modern man

mattm wrote:
In NY and anywhere really, SS should be SOP. Using PS is really short sighted (penny wise and pound foolish if you will). A QUALITY all SS setup can be had for ~$4 (maybe less). The effort needed to replace a glue-in, especially using the same hole is substantial. Sure it can be done but you'll want it to be a LONG, LONG time from now. Again, GlueIns should be SS ONLY. As noted above, WHAT you use is very much dependent on the rock. Not something easily "learned" online but we can certainly give "tips".


you sound like the bolting police. I dont go for the blanket statement that all bolts should be SS either. I'm with you on SS being the modern standard but zinc plated and galvanized steel can last indefinitely if glued into dry spots.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Apr 17, 2013
Stoked...

mattm wrote:
In NY and anywhere really, SS should be SOP. Using PS is really short sighted (penny wise and pound foolish if you will). A QUALITY all SS setup can be had for ~$4 (maybe less). The effort needed to replace a glue-in, especially using the same hole is substantial. Sure it can be done but you'll want it to be a LONG, LONG time from now. Again, GlueIns should be SS ONLY. As noted above, WHAT you use is very much dependent on the rock. Not something easily "learned" online but we can certainly give "tips".



Where you gettin all SS 3/8" bolts and hangers for $4?

I know I can get 1/2" glue-in eyebolts with a life span of 20+ years (in dry rock) for $1.50, hardly pound foolish if you ask me.


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 17, 2013
Grande Grotto

Fall Guy wrote:
you sound like the bolting police. I dont go for the blanket statement that all bolts should be SS either. I'm with you on SS being the modern standard but zinc plated and galvanized steel can last indefinitely if glued into dry spots.


While there certainly are places where a PS 5-Piece might be appropriate (even the ASCA uses them for high wear anchors in the Valley) the VAST MAJORITY of areas and routes are better served with SS.

PS Bolts have other issues beyond questionable longevity. The Zinc coating, over time, will leach down the rock and pretty much acts as a fungicide killing stuff below the bolt. It leaves long, unsightly stains/streaks below the bolt.


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By mattm
From TX
Apr 17, 2013
Grande Grotto

CaptainMo wrote:
Where you gettin all SS 3/8" bolts and hangers for $4? I know I can get 1/2" glue-in eyebolts with a life span of 20+ years (in dry rock) for $1.50, hardly pound foolish if you ask me.


SS Hangers can be had for ~$2.75 (ClimbTech and when fixe has their bulk sales)

Hilti Wedges show up on ebay for cheap on occasion. (I put up 50 Hilti SS in the FS section for $2 each - still available)

Powers SS Wedges can be had here for $1 a piece

Powers 3/8in x 2.75in SS Wedge

Heck, Fixe has a sale right now on their SS Hanger and 3.75in Wedge for $5.50. That's pretty solid too.

To be frank, a Glue In in DRY ROCK with a lifespan of 20 years is less than great.

304SS should likely get you to 100 years (no one knows of course but 20 easily).


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Apr 17, 2013
Stoked...

mattm wrote:
304SS should likely get you to 100 years (no one knows of course but 20 easily).


The same stands for the glueys Matt... 20 is just a guess just like 100 for SS... how long do you think it would take to wear through 1/2" hot forged steel? My guess is 50+ to be honest but I figured 20 yrs was the minimum. SS is nice and preferable but I also don't have an issue placing 1/2" steel either... sorry (PS hanger/bolts im not a fan of particularly though). Also in CT someone could very easily remove the SS or destroy it with a hammer and then I'd be out $5 rather then $1.50.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 17, 2013
...

I bought a bunch of boxes of Hilti 3/8, SS, Kwik Bolts via Ebay (Smoking GOOD deal!) and a few good years back a shit load of SS hangers at $.50ea from Mad Rock when they were doing the tent thing at Ethans (The hangers were a one time only, SPECIAL deal).

So it's a little over a fucking buck per SS hanger/bolt combo for this old BOIeee! (And I just got another DECENT, though no where near as good of a deal) from someone here on Mt Proj.

Shop around! There ARE deals to be had!


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By Chris Vinson
Apr 18, 2013

If its not titanium you're all idiots and are going to die.

True story, cant make this shit up.


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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Apr 18, 2013
Stoked...

Chris Vinson wrote:
If its not titanium you're all idiots and are going to die. True story, cant make this shit up.


Hahaha nice!!!

No doubt Locker... i hear yas. That's a screaming good deaL.


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By teece303
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Apr 18, 2013
Aiding.

I will only clip bolts made of adamantium, otherwise, what's the point? I just skip the other trash and solo, because the bolts are useless anyway, and even then I only clip the bolts to make my belayer feel useful.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 18, 2013
...

I don't clip, "BOLTS". I clip the "Hangers".


;-)


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By Cor
Apr 18, 2013
black nasty

You know who clips bolts? Ken Nichols in Connecticut, literally!


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Apr 18, 2013
...

I had a partner that one time literally clipped the bolt, too. I was fucking cracking up so bad! When I pointed it out, he gave me shit, left it and climbed through.

Fucking really miss that dude!


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By MJMobes
From The land of steady habits
Apr 18, 2013
modern man

back to the OP, if I didnt live in a "chop" zone I would glue in 4" chunks of SS threaded rod which is dirt cheap and then only buy hangers. one tube of glue would be the biggest cost at 15-20 for a tube. I'm all for glue and keeping water out of the hole mainly because I'm climbing less than vert rock usually round here and we are semi close to saltwater.


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 25, 2013
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

mattm wrote:
SS Hangers can be had for ~$2.75 (ClimbTech and when fixe has their bulk sales) Hilti Wedges show up on ebay for cheap on occasion. (I put up 50 Hilti SS in the FS section for $2 each - still available) Powers SS Wedges can be had here for $1 a piece Powers 3/8in x 2.75in SS Wedge Heck, Fixe has a sale right now on their SS Hanger and 3.75in Wedge for $5.50. That's pretty solid too. To be frank, a Glue In in DRY ROCK with a lifespan of 20 years is less than great. 304SS should likely get you to 100 years (no one knows of course but 20 easily).


Thanks Mattm - we don't want to use glue-ins at all.


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