Bolting tips. Pictures update..and more pics......free solo pictures update

I will start a new project soon, bolting my first route, I'm very excited about it, but the question is, how far I need to put the bolts from each other on a 40 ft wall? Second question, I live in a Caribbean island and I was thinking are the bolts stainless steel? Because the sea will make them rust easy. Thanks guys.. This is the wall,,,

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Walter Galli wrote:I will start a new project soon, bolting my first route, I'm very excited about it, but the question is, how far I need to put the bolts from each other on a 40 ft wall? Second question, I live in a Caribbean island and I was thinking are the bolts stainless steel? Because the sea will make them rust easy. Thanks guys.. This is the wall,,,

In the Caribbean you most likely want to go with Titanium bolts, you can get them from titanclimbing.com. For a 40 foot wall you will most likely want 4 or 5 bolts plus a two bolt anchor for each route. Make sure you do your research and learn how to bolt properly so that you don't leave death traps for someone else.

Good tip, and of course I will post picture of the project from day 1 so all can see what I'm doing, I will be very careful because like you say Nobody as to die...

Definitely those are the bolts I need, and. I love the anchors to, awesome website they give you the drill bits and the special epoxy to go with the bolts, very pro stuff, thanks kennoyce..

Walter Galli wrote:I will start a new project soon, bolting my first route, I'm very excited about it, but the question is, how far I need to put the bolts from each other on a 40 ft wall? Second question, I live in a Caribbean island and I was thinking are the bolts stainless steel? Because the sea will make them rust easy. Thanks guys.. This is the wall,,,

If you are using glue-ins (which I do as well and also recommend) one of the biggest disadvantages is not being able to put in anchors and use them immediately to TR/Rap/Trundle/Suss out your bolt placements. Of course, you can waste a glue nozzle and put in anchors, let them dry, then do your business. It doesn't look like you have many anchor options up there.

If possible, put in your anchors and TR the route to find good clipping stances/solid rock.

The biggest thing I've learned about bolting is how little people think about rock when it comes to bolt placement. I now understand so much more when bolts are a little off route as I've had to place bolts in less than ideal locations to find good rock.

Bottom line, clipping stances mean more than distance. I'll run it out 10 feet to get to a jug if the fall potential is clean and it means not having to make a shitty clip.

If you are wondering how many bolts to buy... I would but 8. 2 for anchors, 5 for the climb would likely be sufficient but why not have one extra in case you decide you want it or you mess one up?

Definitely go with Titanium. They are pricey but just bottom line 100% worth it.

KrisFiore wrote: If you are using glue-ins (which I do as well and also recommend) one of the biggest disadvantages is not being able to put in anchors and use them immediately to TR/Rap/Trundle/Suss out your bolt placements. Of course, you can waste a glue nozzle and put in anchors, let them dry, then do your business. It doesn't look like you have many anchor options up there. If possible, put in your anchors and TR the route to find good clipping stances/solid rock. The biggest thing I've learned about bolting is how little people think about rock when it comes to bolt placement. I now understand so much more when bolts are a little off route as I've had to place bolts in less than ideal locations to find good rock. Bottom line, clipping stances mean more than distance. I'll run it out 10 feet to get to a jug if the fall potential is clean and it means not having to make a shitty clip. If you are wondering how many bolts to buy... I would but 8. 2 for anchors, 5 for the climb would likely be sufficient but why not have one extra in case you decide you want it or you mess one up? Definitely go with Titanium. They are pricey but just bottom line 100% worth it.

Yes for sure I will go anchor first and then TR to find good spot for the bolts to hold good and make the route nice and challenging, and yes Titanium is the way to go, then after the first project I got probably 4 more to go, I will post pics..

Any drill advice ? I check the web to see but so many and don't know which one is the best, I need to work a lot on the rock so has to be rechargeable.

The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea: New Warnings about Sea Cliff Bolts

KrisFiore wrote: If you are using glue-ins (which I do as well and also recommend) one of the biggest disadvantages is not being able to put in anchors and use them immediately to TR/Rap/Trundle/Suss out your bolt placements.

Easiest way to get around this problem is to get a couple of Fixe Triplex bolts, or Climb Tech Legacy bolts, and put them in as anchors to use while doing the TRing, Sussing, Trundling, etc. These bolts can be easily removed to place the glue-ins later.

edit to add: place the glue-ins in the same hole later. If you are using the titanium eternal bolts you will have to drill out the hole as well since they require a 14 mm hole instead of a 12 mm (triplex) or 1/2" (legacy) hole.

kennoyce wrote: Easiest way to get around this problem is to get a couple of Fixe Triplex bolts, or Climb Tech Legacy bolts, and put them in as anchors to use while doing the TRing, Sussing, Trundling, etc. These bolts can be easily removed to place the glue-ins later. edit to add: place the glue-ins in the same hole later. If you are using the titanium eternal bolts you will have to drill out the hole as well since they require a 14 mm hole instead of a 12 mm (triplex) or 1/2" (legacy) hole.

Wow. I feel like it should not have taken me this long to realize this idea. I even own Legacy bolts. Thanks for the tip.

KrisFiore wrote: Wow. I feel like it should not have taken me this long to realize this idea. I even own Legacy bolts. Thanks for the tip.

No problem!

Healyje wrote: The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea: New Warnings about Sea Cliff Bolts

Wow, that's OLD! While still not fully up-to-date, I'm working on a current article for the ASCA, it better to read:

climbcaymanbrac.com/safety/

When you are deciding on the bolt placements, besides ease of clip and keeping the climber safe, also think about how and where it will make the rope run. Is the rope going to be running right over that key micro foot hold or a draw hanging in the way of getting to a hold? Also check how the carabiner will be positioned when hanging from the bolt. You don't want it camming over an edge. Don't be afraid to smooth the rock some with your hammer right around and below where you are going to put the bolt so sharp points don't dig excessively into the carabiner. Also, use that hammer to gently soften any razor edges the rope will be going over.

When placing glue-ins it is even more important to take your time figuring if and where you want them, since it is not an easy thing to remove them if you make a mistake. Also, make sure the holes are very clean with a tube brush and blow bulb. Where you are, titanium is definitely the way to go.

For drills you want a 36V Cordless Lithium-Ion SDS-plus Rotary Hammer Drill. Bosch and Hilti are two of the most popular quality brands. I have always had Bosch drills and have been very happy with them. When ordering drills make note of how many and what size batteries they are sending with them. Some ship with one, others get an extra, which is handy. This is the one I use. They also make a little bit lighter, compact version that is not quite as powerful, but a little cheaper and not so heavy to carry around.

Txs M Sprague, very clarifying tip, I will follow it to the words. Love the Drill.

What island are you on?

Lots of good advice already here, some of which I'm repeating.

You MUST use Ti bolts. Stainless will crack in as little as 18 months.

You want to do your cleaning, top-roping and bolting from a temporary two-bolt anchor, especially if your working rope goes over a sharp lip and/or over loose, sharp, less-than-vertical headwall.

I use hardware store 3/8" x 3" expansion bolts for my temporary anchors. I over-drill the hole to at least 4" before installing them. After I've placed the Ti bolts, I remove the nuts and hangers and using a punch, recess the stud into the rock. In the Brac, the hole will often fill in on its own, but you can also fill it with a touch of glue and sand.

Leave room ABOVE your temporary bolts for the Ti anchor bolts. This way you can place the Ti and rap off while the glue dries, then hang from the Ti bolts to clean the temp bolts.

I just have climbers thread the anchor bolts and lower. Ti wears well and stainless lowering rings will crack. Or get Ti quick-links. Place the anchor bolts about 8" apart and angle them inward about 15 degrees (in-line with standard draws) to minimize rope twist. Obviously, the climbing bolts will be placed vertically.

It's very important to TOP ROPE the climb to determine where the bolts go. Ti bolts are expensive and very very permanent, so you want to be SURE you get them in the right places. Find people of different heights, mark the proposed bolt placement with a dot of chalk, and have them pantomime clipping while on top rope. If the rock is very overhanging, you may need a few temporary bolts to hold the top-rope, and working rope, close to the rock.

The first three bolts need to be MUCH closer together than the ones that are higher. This is to 1) prevent a ground-fall, and 2) prevent the climber from falling and hitting their belayer. MEASURE IT.

If the rock is not overhanging, the bolts need to be closer together to prevent the climber from hitting it, tumbling and smashing their skull.

If there is a low crux, put the first bolt high enough (stick clip) that the climber can complete the crux and clip the next bolt without worrying about a ground-fall. In this case, it's also nice to have a "belay bolt" off to the side to keep the climber and belayer from smashing into each other. (SEE http://www.climbcaymanbrac.com/climbing-guide-2/ look for "Iguana Wall")

Titan Climbing recommends only the Hilti RE-500, and I second that recommendation.

Bolting is NOT CHEAP so have your checkbook ready. Don't be a cheap route developer; that sucks for other climbers and the rock. Besides a drill you'll need the Hilti glue gun and many other tools and accessories. Figure about US$1000 just to get started.

I just need a drill, bolts and anchor system. I have the rest of the tools, but for sure it won't be a cheap route. It is my first one and more will come. I'm in Saint Marteen, Caribbean... Anyone will like to come and help? Thanks for the info, John, very nice..

Walter,

If you can find a way to set up anchors, you could have yourself a nice toprope cliff. Are there trees or big boulders up top?

The advantage of toproping would be that you could get started climbing immediately. Also, in the process of toproping, you would be able to find the best routes to eventually bolt. You'll also clean the routes of loose or crumbly stuff this way.

Other than that, you've been given good info about the titanium.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:Walter, If you can find a way to set up anchors, you could have yourself a nice toprope cliff. Are there trees or big boulders up top? The advantage of toproping would be that you could get started climbing immediately. Also, in the process of toproping, you would be able to find the best routes to eventually bolt. You'll also clean the routes of loose or crumbly stuff this way. Other than that, you've been given good info about the titanium.

Yes yes for sure I will do a bunch of times before the route TRing and clean the shit out, and yes they are boulders on top , but I can even put a top anchor in the wall behind the edge is a big space, I will put up some pics tomorrow, but for sure I will bolt the route bacause is a sport wall overhanging on the finish, and I always want to bolt a route, is a good project to start..

I'm concerning about this 10 ft by 8 ft roof, is looking bad, like is ready to come down, what do you guys thinking about it.

Walter Galli wrote:I'm concerning about this 10 ft by 8 ft roof, is looking bad, like is ready to come down, what do you guys thinking about it.

It would be really hard to know just by photos. It does look scary, but it may be totally solid. Take a crow bar up on top of the cliff and see if it moves at all or not.

"Take a crow bar up on top of the cliff and see if it moves at all or not".

This will probably be unpopular, but I cringe at the thought of the advice above. Why create unnecessary risk? There are plenty potential routes to either side of the roof. 10 x 8 is small enough to avoid.