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Bolting "ethics"
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By GMBurns
Dec 10, 2012
Climbing at Morro Anhangava in Southern Brasil.  (...
started in 2007, seemingly done in 2010, revived without missing a beat in 2012.

(facepalm)

FLAG
By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Dec 10, 2012
Free Solo up hitchcock gully WI3
Blissab wrote:
I personally don't find the need to bring 100-150-feet of static line to Ragged or many other cliffs in Connecticut. Many of the routes should be led or if TR'd...can be easily set-up with equalized gear anchors. As a classic example, Broadway and YMC has both bomber TR gear anchors, that many people overlook and never use. Instead, there often exists the spider's web of static line. The factured nature and freeze thaw characteristics of the top of many Connecticut cliffs probably do not lend themselves to permanent TR anchor bolts, which would probably be chopped anyway. I feel sorry for those two poor little trees that just happen to have the unfortunate luck of being located 50-feet back of and above Broadway and YMC.



So by your statement anyone who doesnt own cams shouldnt be able to climb at these places? Not applying this to myself, but there are many people who are perfectly happy being a TR climber, and using static lines/ webbing to make their anchors. This kills trees. A few staples at the top of popular routes would solve this issue in a heartbeat.

But the Koolaid runs deep in CT..

Id also argue most of the climbs at ragged etc have garbage for even making gear anchors.




  • *I dont want to see bolts all over ragged. Heck I dont want to see any bolts at all. But I think a few solid staples on the most popular routes placed 5-10 feet back very much like you see at Otter cliffs in Acadia would be a wonderful solution.

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By Unassigned User
Dec 10, 2012
everyone talks like there is this huge group of CT locals who don't want sport climbs or bolts. The truth of the matter is that there is one egomaniac extremist who has held the state hostage for the last 30 years.

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By turbotime
From CT
Dec 10, 2012
CaptainMo wrote:
It could be or it could also not be a liability. One thing I could tell you with certainty, they would provide for better conservation of the natural resources. We have liability insurance at the RMF and the Access Fund is now capable of providing liability coverage through one of their programs so the liability issues can theoretically be mitigated. You don't agree that the basalt in Central Connecticut is some of the most fractured rock, from a geological standpoint? It is fractured especially along the top edges where' it's exposed to all the elements but there are plenty of areas along the tops of all of these cliffs, along all the routes, that a 1' hole could be drilled and an anchor installed in solid rock. That said a lot of the GEAR placements suck because they are along these fractures and once they're there they're mostly weak because of the geology. As a civil conversation, does climbing have to be convenient? Do climbers have a responsibility to learn how to create anchors in less that convenient situations? No and yes if they want to live. We are not talking about convenience anchors we are talking about anchors for the sake of conservation. In philosophy, examples always help so here goes, they could be the most PITA anchors to use and I would still support them over trees. That's why those damn trees rather then gear get used for Broadway all the time... convenience. You may think that this thread may be dead, however, the condition in Central Connecticut is quite alive. Hahaha - people in ICU are alive too, no ;-)? CT...Sedated, bleeding, and being dragged by a dying horse into the future maybe. If you think differently, I have a test for you: What was the last hard (notable or not) FA that was put up in Central Conn (not at the fire wall)? What publications covered it? In what year was the first 5.14 trad or sport lead in central CT and how many repeats does it have? What top climbers have travel to CT to try this test piece? I think the point has been made no?


I think thread's like this and knowledge from people like you are essential towards the progression of CT climbing. With continued discourse perhaps we won't have to wait for the old closed-minded people to die off. It is not up to any individual to determine what makes for ethical climbing, rather as a collective we must agree upon terms that will best protect our crags and their surrounding habitats

FLAG
By Unassigned User
Dec 10, 2012
"If you think differently, I have a test for you: What was the last hard (notable or not) FA that was put up in Central Conn (not at the fire wall)? What publications covered it? In what year was the first 5.14 trad or sport lead in central CT and how many repeats does it have? What top climbers have travel to CT to try this test piece? I think the point has been made no?"

I don't think there are any potential 5.14s in central CT if there are let me know. There have been several very hard boulder problems put up. One very recently.

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By Blissab
Dec 10, 2012
superkick wrote:
Id also argue most of the climbs at ragged etc have garbage for even making gear anchors.


Given the current state at Ragged, your aurgument is incorrect...there are suitable/safe multi-gear equalized anchors at the top of Vanishing Point, Ragged Edge, Carey Corner, Broadway, YMC, Netherlands, Wet Wall, Knights Gambit, Vector, Wishbone, Unconquerable (with the use of the tree left) and other routes that negate the need for all the static line. You are correct, this doesn't apply globally across the cliff line.

So to flip the conversation, because someone doesn't own cams or nuts, it's okay to choke-out the two small trees at the top of Broadway/YMC and other routes?

I'm not saying that the use of long static line for TR anchors (sometimes can't be helped at this point) is all bad...but the first line of defense should probably be safe gear anchors, for all the obvious reasons, until such time as the RMF moves on an alternative.

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By Blissab
Dec 10, 2012
Hey CaptainMo,

Thank you for your response and clarification. I also spoke in depth with Brien, RMF President a weekend or two ago out at East Peak, while watching KN at the Amphitheater, regarding this issue.

The timing may be right for a new direction in Central Connecticut with the guidance of sensible stewardship.

This issue should stay alive.

AB

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Dec 10, 2012
my foot
I thought climbing wasnt allowed in Meriden, hmmm.

FLAG
 
By Blissab
Dec 10, 2012
TRmasta wrote:
I thought climbing wasnt allowed in Meriden, hmmm.


You know better than that. The hiking along the Metacomet is wonderful.

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By Blissab
Dec 10, 2012
turbotime wrote:
I think thread's like this and knowledge from people like you are essential towards the progression of CT climbing. With continued discourse perhaps we won't have to wait for the old closed-minded people to die off. It is not up to any individual to determine what makes for ethical climbing, rather as a collective we must agree upon terms that will best protect our crags and their surrounding habitats


Well stated!

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Dec 10, 2012
my foot
OK, lets see what we can all agree on. I'll start.

-anchors at every heavily used TR spot

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By Unassigned User
Dec 10, 2012
TRmasta wrote:
OK, lets see what we can all agree on. I'll start. -anchors at every heavily used TR spot

ok i'll add...

retro bolt all the unprotected classic hard lines like volcanic eruption.

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Dec 11, 2012
my foot
thefish wrote:
ok i'll add... retro bolt all the unprotected classic hard lines like volcanic eruption.


would it be retro if the face was never bolted to begin with?

change a move or two on the climb and claim an FA, how else did KN find 40 routes on a crag as small as the Firewall?

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By Eric Engberg
Dec 11, 2012
TRmasta wrote:
OK, lets see what we can all agree on. I'll start. -anchors at every heavily used TR spot


Nothing manmade at the crag - ever. No conveniences. No trails, no parking, no guidebooks, no rescue services. Would probably solve the overuse/erosion problems faster then anything else.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 11, 2012
Topo - Cliffs in Green
thefish wrote:
"If you think differently, I have a test for you: What was the last hard (notable or not) FA that was put up in Central Conn (not at the fire wall)? What publications covered it? In what year was the first 5.14 trad or sport lead in central CT and how many repeats does it have? What top climbers have travel to CT to try this test piece? I think the point has been made no?" I don't think there are any potential 5.14s in central CT if there are let me know. There have been several very hard boulder problems put up. One very recently.


You passed the test... there are projects out there but no sends. Always looking for a partner in the SW/NW CT area... I got a few lines that need some bolts and I have land owner permission.

FLAG
By superkick
From West Hartford, CT
Dec 11, 2012
Free Solo up hitchcock gully WI3
anyone arguing overuse at ct crags is a joke.

unless theyre talking about the overuse by teenagers throwing beer bottles off the cliff at pinnacle

FLAG
 
By mitchy
From nunya gotdamn business.
Dec 11, 2012
Don't forget the occasional "long island white fish" that can be found at the bases as well.

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By Unassigned User
Dec 11, 2012
there is only one overused route in CT and we all know its name

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Dec 11, 2012
my foot
mitchy wrote:
Don't forget the occasional "long island white fish" that can be found at the bases as well.


usually at the trailhead parking spot

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By Mike Belu
From Indianapolis, IN
Dec 13, 2012
Summit of Rainier.
And you put a tree on your state quarter....

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Dec 13, 2012
Topo - Cliffs in Green
hahahahahahah

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By Echoinfi
Dec 16, 2012
Former Anchor Tree.  RIP.
Former Anchor Tree. RIP.

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By jason malczyk
From General Delivery
Dec 16, 2012
I grew up in Southington CT climbing the rocks of Ragged Mountain. I recently went back for a family visit and climbed at both Ragged and Pinnacle and noticed there was more vegetation on top of Ragged now then when I grew up. The real problem I saw was graffiti, trash and broken glass. The trees all seemed just fine. I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing. There are sport climbing crags in CT but they are not every crag. CT is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and not every one going to these crags goes to rock climb. The areas get used a ton by climbers and non climbers. Both effecting vegetation.
The bolting issue in CT is about land ownership. Unlike the West the land it CT is owned by mostly private people or the water company. You have to respect the land owners and what they want. CT is lucky it has what it has. If you want to bolt it just buy a crag-I think Pinnacle is for sale

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By guy bon
Dec 16, 2012
yup...
Trees ARE killed by over use.

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By Miike
From MA/CT border
Dec 17, 2012
my foot
jason malczyk wrote:
I grew up in Southington CT climbing the rocks of Ragged Mountain. I recently went back for a family visit and climbed at both Ragged and Pinnacle and noticed there was more vegetation on top of Ragged now then when I grew up. The real problem I saw was graffiti, trash and broken glass. The trees all seemed just fine. I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing. There are sport climbing crags in CT but they are not every crag. CT is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and not every one going to these crags goes to rock climb. The areas get used a ton by climbers and non climbers. Both effecting vegetation. The bolting issue in CT is about land ownership. Unlike the West the land it CT is owned by mostly private people or the water company. You have to respect the land owners and what they want. CT is lucky it has what it has. If you want to bolt it just buy a crag-I think Pinnacle is for sale


this is almost a conspiracy theory

FLAG


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