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 ADVANCED
Dihedrals Area
Routes Sorted
L to R R to L Alpha
Black and White John and Mary T,TR 
Core Shot S 
Equipment Overhang T 
Equipment Overhang Right T 
Fallen Angel Variation T 
Half-A-Finger T 
Incubator S 
Lisa's Shoulder T 
Satan's Corner T 
Satan's Nook T 
Stem the Tide S,TR 

Black and White John and Mary 

YDS: 5.10c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b

   
Type:  Trad, TR, 1 pitch, 80'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.10c French: 6b Ewbanks: 20 UIAA: VII ZA: 20 British: E2 5b [details]
FA: FA: D. Boyd, E. Eliason, 1970 FFA: L. Ellison, L. Carrol, 1979
Page Views: 4,096
Submitted By: Nathan Fisher on Apr 13, 2005

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (69)
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BETA PHOTO: 1) Half-A-Finger 5.9+ 2) Black and White John and ...

The land is owned by the LDS Church; please be respectful of this. MORE INFO >>>

Description 

The dihedral just right of Half-a-Finger, is Black and White John and Mary. The start is typically wet and is a rarely climbed 5.11 variation. Otherwise start left of the dihedral on a flake, and work into the dihedral above the moisture. Continue on up the dihedral with pumpy lie-backs, and fun stems.

There is a direct finish to Black and White which was added by Doug Heinrich sometime around 2002. Its about 11b, but the gear is there. The original finish (5.10) cuts left to the Half-A-Finger belay

Protection 

Small gear.


Photos of Black and White John and Mary Slideshow Add Photo
The powerful beginning lieback moves of B and W, J...
The powerful beginning lieback moves of B and W, J...
My anonymous partner showing me how easy the stems...
My anonymous partner showing me how easy the stems...
you can see the excessive large hexes I brought du...
you can see the excessive large hexes I brought du...

Comments on Black and White John and Mary Add Comment
Show which comments
By d-know
From: electric lady land
Jan 25, 2006
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

best lead on the wall.
By tenesmus
Apr 9, 2006

Truly is. Lots more pro on it than you think the first time you do it.
By Stan Pitcher
From: SLC, UT
Aug 2, 2007

Awesome route!! Much harder for me than Equipment Left. Many cruxes and very sustained.
By Mark D Evans
From: Sandy, UT
Jul 13, 2008
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

The Ruckman book has the top of this route traversing left and sharing the same chains as Hal-A-Finger. There are another set of chains if you continue directly op some scary flakes. I was wondering if anyone knew which is the "true" top of this climb?

I tried to reach the upper chains, but it was a bit intimidating, so I followed the Ruckman route to Half-A-Finger. The direct option seemed a bit harder and a little runout...
By drewford
From: Wasatch Back, UT
Aug 15, 2008

The direct finish was added by Doug Heinrich about five or six years ago. It does check in at about 11b, but the gear is there. The original finish (5.10) does cut left to the Half a Finger belay.
By Marq Diamond
Oct 23, 2009

This climb is totally TRable from the top of half a finger. It's a really good, strenous route. I liked it a lot. Still don't have the balls to lead it though.
By Adam Maxwell
From: SLC
Jun 6, 2011

Got skeeved out on this today when the horn on the top of the first flake started to flex and move considerably when mantling up on the ledge, especially since the only gear placed was between it and the wall. Looks solid but definitely felt hollow. Be careful where you belay and climb lightly!
By Spencer Weiler
From: SLC, UT
Jun 9, 2011

Great lead. Really fun. I placed 3 .3 camalots and 2 .4 camalots plus the bolt for gear. Maybe I'm not that observant but the last 10 feet or so to get to the chains is lacking gear. Felt easier than psychobabble in BCC with all the stems and low angle though. Crux is the mantle 10 feet into the climb.
By Mark SLC
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Aug 8, 2011
rating: 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b

+1 for best lead on the wall. The gear though small, is all there. Yeah the tip of the opening flake flexes, but rock solid lower and eats a nut. Shouldn't deter the competent leader as there are solid placements above once established. Doubles from blue tcu to orange will get it done, triples to sew it up. Also, good gear is available just before the top out left
By Erik S. Gillis
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Oct 9, 2013
rating: 5.10c/d 6b+ 21 VII+ 21 E3 5b

Great route. The original start and finish make for an epic lead! However, We spent some time today sussing out the beta to the 11 start and 11 finish and I have to say, if you do the route this way it is simply amazing, I would say the best climb I have done in LCC. The gear is there, except for some spice in the beginning, but it is hard to place. Can you say sustained?!!