best gear for trad rack?

As far as building a rack goes, what is the most reliable gear to carry? I haven't done much trad climbing thus far, but I am trying to expand my knowledge and gain some experience beyond sport climbing and bouldering as I have spent the majority of my climbing history. I recently picked up some extra quickdraws and anchoring equipment to set up top ropes and rappels. I picked up a set of ABC Huevos because I have used them in the past from climbing with other people and liked them. As far as camming units go, it's difficult to decipher whats better or worse at this stage not having much experience.
I guess what I'm asking mostly is, what is better for vertical cracks as opposed to horizontal? Should I look more into passive or active protection? Most importantly, reliability. What holds true and lasts for more than a couple whippers if need be?

I would say each type has its advantages. It depends on where your climbing as well. I will personally drop passive pro if I can before active but many situations require active gear. That is all personal preference.

Cams: Most people love 'em. Once you know how to gauge size and set the cam correctly they are quick and great for parallel sided cracks. They work in horizontals but its nicer if the horizontals are deep enough so that the stem doesn't stick out past the edge. They can walk to less favorable positions if you don't sling them when necessary. Biggest con, they are expensive!!

Tri-cams: A love or hate piece. The best piece for horizontals! Tricky to place one handed but once set they feel solid (even if they don't look it). Also I seem to always be able to use these at belays even if I usually don't use them on the climb. This would probably be my last type of pro to buy.

Hexes: In my opinion a must have. Great for tapering cracks especially if the crack is too large for a nut. With two different orientations ("camming mode" and "passive") it gives you a couple options and sizes. These are great for larger cracks and inspire confidence when placed correctly. However, I will get ripped for suggesting that you purchase these wonderful pieces of pro! They are cheap and if nothing else make great bail gear.

Nuts: The first thing you should get is a set of nuts/stoppers. They are easy to place and obvious to test. Just be sure to sling them if needed so the rope doesn't pull them up and out if you don't set them well.

Vertical cracks can accept all types of pro but usually parallel=cams and tapering=passive. I prefer Metolius's cams for the smaller sizes and BD for the larger. Your best bet though is find a trad climber and use their rack to figure out what you like before spending all that cash on cams.

As far as what holds true for a couple whippers, I don't know I never whip =)

Camalot C4s

Definitely a set or two of nuts, and SMALL too. Even if you know it's too small to fall on (aid gear) better have something than nothing sometimes! Don't underestimate the value of some small cams too (Metolius TCUs, Mastercams, etc...). C4s are good for the larger cams... Different length quickdraws for extending cams/nuts/etc!

The ABC huevo's you got are identical profile to BD nuts.

I climb on BD C4 cams (#.3-#4) and a set of metolius TCU's (#0-#4). But I would consider going with Metolius Power Cams for the smaller sizes instead of BD if I were to be buying gear again. The C4's have a dual axle which gives them expanded range. If you look at the range they share, you've got #.3-#2 with BD (6pcs). You cover the same overall range with 8 pcs with Metolius (#1-#8), probably similar with other single axle cams too. So you've got less range with each cam, but more cams to choose from, And I think the head is narrower. I think a really good rack would be Metolius powercams #1-#3 and BD C4's #.75 on up. Match that up with a set of TCU's (0-4) or maybe mix it up with C3's for size 0-2 and #3 and #4 tcus.

Hexes can be handy, a well placed one is bomber; But I practically never climb with them. I think it depends on the rock. Not alot opportunities for them around here, i just use a cam. It is an inexpensive way to beef up your rack though. I'd only consider getting the 5 largest.

Tricams are another reletively inexpensive way to beef up your rack with some active gear at less than half the price of a cam, but they're difficult to place with one hand. I love them because I climb on the east coast (lots of horizontals), but you probably won't like them out west. I use .5-2.

But that's what I would use. See if you can follow some people, clean their gear, borrow some and lead on different kinds... See what you like. And also pay attention to what the people who climb where you are planning use, they're probably tuned to the area.

BD C4's Large Cams
BD C3's Small Cams
Wild Country Rocks (2 sets)
Piss on Hexes. Im tired of trying to make them work.
Tri-Cams: mostly harmless (read: above)
OP Link Cams (2) one orange and one red
Dyneema or spectra slings (8-10)
BD Oz Carabiners (lotsadem)
Petzl Reverso
Gri
4 Locking Biners (I use 3 smaller BD ones and one pear auto locker for the belay device).
2 23-footer Cordalettes
Titanium Nut Tool

Bob Packwood wrote:I'm having deja vu....why is that?

Same reason as last time... remember?

Larry S wrote: I climb on BD C4 cams (#.3-#4) and a set of metolius TCU's (#0-#4).

+1

JLP wrote:Nobody has answered any of the OP's questions.

Ok, i'll give it a shot, though i think the heart of the question is summed up as "what do you recommend?" and has been covered.

My C4's are holding up very well, and i'd recommend them as being very durable and capable of holding alot of abuse. My metolius cams are doing fine as well, though i have fewer and don't use them as much.

If you want it to last forever, stay away from stuff with super-skinny dyneema slings... they cost more and don't wear as well. I have a bunch of Blue Water titan runners and they're great. They're way beefier than the tiny petzl's or mammut's, but much less bulky than nylon and rated to 27kn. Got 3-4 years on them, and i'm just considering retiring my oldest ones, but probably don't need to. Nylon will probably out-last them though.

Regarding passive or active, you'll want both. You'll be best suited with a "standard rack" to start. I consider that to be a set of nuts and a set of cams from fingers-fists. You've already got nuts covered. If you can afford it, skip hexes and tricams and go for a rack of cams, you can't go wrong going BD 0.3-3 to start. From there, you'll figure out what you need to add. Where and what you climb will guide you. If you can't swing a full rack of cams, you can make due with large hexes, small-medium tricams, and a few cams, but don't expect it to be easy or to always have something that fits. I'd get those pieces AFTER getting the cams if possible.

Most of the time, I find any piece of gear will fit in a horizontal, The question is, what fits best? A horizontal that is 5" deep or better will take any cam without loading the stem over an edge. For a horizontal that is 3"-5" a cam MIGHT load with the stem over the edge and a tricam might be a better option but a cam will probably go in just fine and as long as you don't fall won't be damaged. If you do fall with a Camalot stuffed in and the stem is over the edge, it will most likely still hold a fall and just mangle the cam a little. The mindset here is that protection is for the unlikely event that you do fall and if you are new to trad you should be leading WELL BELOW your limit anyway. In a shallow crack 1"-2" I like the alien's and Mastercams because the stem pivots nicely on the axle, allowing it to almost completely clear the lip of the horizontal. Keep in mind that this is not a great placement if the crack flares out even a little bit. I've seen many climbers in the Gunks (horizontal heaven) armed with mastercams and I've used them there with great success as well.

With that in mind here are my rack selections: I prefer BD C4 from the #1 up to #6 (if you're going to go that big, but I'd say stop at #3 or maybe #4 for your starter rack). Then I like the #1 -#5 (blue, yellow, orange, red, black) Metolius mastercam for the small to mid sizes. Add a blue alien for your smallest piece and you've got a great single set of cams. When building a double set of cams, consider buying different pieces instead of just doubles of the same. This gives great flexiblity but does complicate choosing the right size the first time. For the second set I recommend adding a green and yellow alien (if you can find them with the swedge marked "TENSILE TESTED"), .5 camalot, .75 camalot, and then just doubling from #1 to #3 camalot (nothing beats a camalot in the sweet #1-#3 sizes). For #4 a nice double is the Wild Country Tech Friend - it is lighter and more compact than the BD C4 #4 and so I'm much more inclined to bring it when a route calls for a #4. It really only protects up to about 3.75" but that has never been a problem for me.

For nuts I like DMM Wallnuts or Wild country Rocks from 1-11. Carrying that one extra size (#11) has proved usefull on a regular basis. For nut doubles DMM makes offset nuts that work great. The smaller brass ones will save your ass once in a while but the 3 smallest in the set of 6 or 7 are aid only and live in the closet mostly.

Hexes and Tricams are great pieces and well worth learning how to use, but also generally live in the closet because cams are usually so much faster to place and clean that the others get left in the closet. That said, My first rack was a set of nuts, hexes, tricams (.5 - 2), and BD Camalot's #1-#3 and it worked just fine until I started yearning for longer and harder routes where speed was critical. I'm glad that was my rack because I learned to place those pieces expertly before moving on to my now overstuffed cam rack. Learning the fundamentals is cheap and valuable.

thanks guys! this is all incredibly helpful. i do however find it interesting that only one person recommended the omega pacific link cams. ive done a little research on them because i can get them damn near half off, and it seems like the majority of people dont like them. of course this is on a mixed review, but i am curious as to what makes them great or terrible.

Because link cams are not a beginner piece. They are more likely to break in a fall if placed in a less than ideal placement.

David Hertel wrote:thanks guys! this is all incredibly helpful. i do however find it interesting that only one person recommended the omega pacific link cams. ive done a little research on them because through pro deals, i can get them damn near half off, and it seems like the majority of people dont like them. of course this is on a mixed review, but i am curious as to what makes them great or terrible.

I had the red one and it was a great piece, but I found I didn't reach for it as much. A little heavier than most cams, and of course there is the "fear" of all those movable parts. I liked the range, but it was only good in shallower cracks at the largest setting. After that the crack it would need to be at least 4 inches or so deep to place. It's pretty useless in shallow cracks and dangerous in pods.

Right now I have BD's all the way up and the second set is a mix of Metolius TCU's and Wild Country's. That way they all overlap a bit.

Ideal double set of cams is as follows.

c4 0.4-6 with doubles from 1-6
mastercams 00-4
c3s 000-1

Don't get the small or big ones unless you need them.

nuts, DMM offset aluminum and brass, the whole set. I find once people use offset nuts they don't rack anything else.

+1 for BD C4's. Personally i don't find the need to "overlap" at all b/c cams are sized accordingly to fit the entire range. To each his/her own. I see the theory but Ive got doubles and triples in Black Diamond c4's and have never been disappointed. I also have a few C3's that I like but seem to be a bit on the rigid side, so if I were to buy new small cams I might go for Metolius. Most people get by without tricams and hex's. For me it depends on where I'm climbing. On the east coast I use tricams(pink-blue) more but still don't carry them every time roping up. Out west I've only used tricams on alpine moderates, and that has always worked out well.

I see link cams fixed more often than other cams and it's just an assumption but I've come to think they are prone to it more than other cams. Also, if a BD C4 gets "almost" fixed I feel more comfortable manhandling it to get it out than I would a link cam with all it's parts. That's an expensive piece to lose and +1 to everyone else's dislikes for the link cams - too many parts, heavy, bad in shallow and horizontal placements, break if stem not oriented in direction of fall. However, they do apparently shine when crack jugging on an aid climb (not that you care about aid - just sayin')

David Hertel wrote:thanks guys! this is all incredibly helpful. i do however find it interesting that only one person recommended the omega pacific link cams. ive done a little research on them because through pro deals, i can get them damn near half off, and it seems like the majority of people dont like them. of course this is on a mixed review, but i am curious as to what makes them great or terrible.

I stopped using mine after the 0.5 popped out of a textbook placement in a routine, low-factor fall, and I was caught on the manky pin underneath.

I then renewed my decision not to use them when I passed a completely obliterated #2 on my way up Country Club Crack - destroyed to a point that you shouldn't be able to get it to even if you're trying to destroy it (which I'm pretty sure wasn't the owner's intent in this case).

Some ideas for a starter rack, some things I never leave home without

Ok in all seriousness, Read a book, Craig Luebbens mastering basic skills, and advanced climbing anchors, Climb with your friends gear and see what you like and don't like, Companies like mountaingear.com and what not have basic rack packages, You use that baseline rack as a good starter and then start filling in the holes, Or you can buy all my used gear so I can go get new gear :-)

# rule of pro deal is don't talk about pro deal, LOL

Good luck with your quest and welcome to the dark side of placing gear!

If you have a serious jonesing for some shiny cams, there are two that stand out as being extremely versatile and of high quality: Black Diamond C4s and Metolius Mastercams.

Get thin hands to fists first. Your nuts will cover the thinner stuff.

Both are also expensive at about $60/cam, but can be found on sale for low 40's if you hunt and wait. Right now Sport Chalet has Mastercams in some sizes for $42, which is great.

You can make monkey fists for cheap. Get a solid wooden ball and wrap it with some super techno electro-age cordage:

Seriously, I would say get a full set of BD c4, a full range of stoppers including the mini, a full set of Camp tri-cams (except maybe the largest ones), and a full set of small cams, Aliens or C3s. Double up on the green C4 0.75, man that sucker is useful

One of things you might consider is:

What cams are on your partners rack?

If you buy a rack that is not very common, or buy a variety of different manufacturers cams over time, then that is what you will learn. That is the rack with which you will become familiar and comfortable.

If your rack radically differs from that of your partners, then they will not want to climb on it. It will stress them on harder climbs. They have to take the cam and hold it near the crack. It will be harder for them to lead at their limit.

They cannot “plug and chug.” They will insist you climb on their rack. This will stress you, since you will not be familiar with their rack.

Eventually, if you climb with your "idiosyncratic" rack long enough, you will only want to climb on your rack because---you learned what fits where and be able to “plug and chug” only on it.

This becomes a bigger problem on multi-pitch. Carrying two racks is just crazy—heavy and harder to move quickly and efficiently.

For this reason, in my view, the decision of what rack you purchase involves more than simply the quality of the cams.

A common rack is a a set of doubles and and full set of nuts.

Most people know, for example, with Black Diamond C4's, hands = yellow Camalot; tight hands = red Camalot; rattlely fingers = green Camalot.

Scott Mc