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Best Aider/Daisy combo
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By photocodo
From Hendersonville, NC
Nov 3, 2012
The "crack"

Please redirect me if this toppic has already been covered but I searched and was not able to find much. Ive been interested in aid for a while now and just found someone to show me the ropes. Im going to wait on purchasing ascenders for now but figured it would be good to get a set of aiders and two daisys. My question is what do you guys recommend for brands and models of each. I will probably stick with aid ladders cause Im a bigger guy and I feel they would just be more comfortable, and I really dont mind the extra weight/size, I just want something comfortable.

And what about daisys. Do people like the metolius ones that have individual sewn loops or the traditional ones that are sewn from one peice of material?

Again I appologize if this topic has been covered before but I just wasnt able to find much.

Cody


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By Dylan Weldin
From Austin, Texas
Nov 3, 2012
Summit of my first tower, the Rectory via Fine Jade

This: mountainproject.com/v/big_wall_and_aid_climbing/speedy_aid_r>>>

Specifically, Yates Big Wall Ladders (x2)
and one (x1) Yates adjustable daisy
All product info here: www.yatesgear.com/climbing/etriers/index.htm

Some may scoff as I haven't actually done a wall yet, but I'm in your position and I've put in the hours of Googling, supertopo-ing, and mountain projecting-ing to know that those ladders are the best, that system is the most efficient, and that for adjustable daisies the Yates has the best buckle.

Again, the sequence:
1) Place piece. Be sure carabiner on piece is oriented so that when you fifi in to top step you are fifing into the spine side of the 'biner.
2) Clip ladder to piece with non locking keylock carabiner (easy removal)
3) Clip adjustable daisy to piece (keylock again recommended)
4) Perform your bounce test if piece is suspect
5) Climb ladder using the sling of the cam as a handhold (place it shallow, or use grab loop on ladder if it's buried/ it's a nut)
6) Attach your quickdraw to the carabiner on the piece attempting to load the spine side of the biner
7) Top step by leaning back on your fifi (I am using this word to describe any method of clipping in short to the piece be it a real fifi hook, a draw or a 'biner) and generating rotational energy that allows your body to swing up and lever back. Fifi length is the single most important aspect of your aid setup. How tight your harness is, how long your quickdraw is, what size carabiners are on your draw, the circumference of your belay loop all make a difference. I have a large belay loop and have taken to simply fifing with two non lockers to get the perfect length...
8) Place high piece. This is where the sequence has options. You are no longer weighting your daisy so you need to decide whether to clip your daisy to the piece as you place it so it cannot be dropped or if it is solid enough that you feel confident clipping your aid ladder to it, leaving it unattached to yourself, and THEN attaching the daisy to it. Bomber cam? No worries. Suspect micro offset in a small pin scar? Attach that daisy AS you place the piece...
9) Attach ladder.
10) Attach daisy if you decided not to before
11) Bounce test
12) Transition to high aid ladder
13) Unclip fifi
14) Retrieve bottom aid ladder and clip to harness
15) Clip rope to original carabiner on piece
16) REPEAT

I would suggest never adjusting the length of your adjustable daisy while climbing. It adds two steps that will slow you down. As soon as you transition to the high aid ladder, climb it and fifi in. You may be tempted to rest by yarding on your adjustable daisy so that it holds you, however this makes it much too short to attach to your next high piece when you are top stepping. You will have to take the time in your top step to use both hands to release the buckle and make the daisy long enough to clip the high ladder.

Sorry to be longwinded. I wanted to justify my recommendation for using one adjustable instead of the tradition double pocketed daisies...

Let me know how this works for you!

Cheers,
-Dylan Weldin


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 3, 2012

Dylan Weldin wrote:
This: ...I haven't actually done a wall yet, but I'm in your position and I've put in the hours of Googling, supertopo-ing, and mountain projecting-ing...



Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly...You've never climbed a bigwall to actually see how any of this shit works up there yet you feel compelled to offer detailed advice because you've read everything you could find on the subject on the internet?

That. Is. AWESOME. Troll.

Edited to add: I just went back and actually read all of your AWESOME advice and I'll offer some of my own...You're slow as shit and need to learn how to aid climb.


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 3, 2012

To the OP...

Here's a link that will answer your questions.


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By T.C.
From Whittier, NC
Nov 3, 2012

I've been using these, and they work perfectly. Can't say anything negative about them. www.climbtechgear.com/ascenders/

I ordered a couple of daisy chains when I bought the ascenders, they are simple and bomber. I wouldn't hesitate to buy more from them.

www.climbtechgear.com/slings-daisy-chains/

TC


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By photocodo
From Hendersonville, NC
Nov 3, 2012
The "crack"

To: Reginald McChufferton, thanks for following Guideline #1

My question is not "How to aid climb" as you suggest, possibly a quick look at the title of the post will help you answer more accurately (just my opinion though). I was asking for personal opionions about gear choice not personal opinions about who is qualified to respond to certain posts.

So that being said, if anyone actually has an opinion about aider and/or daisy preferences and why you prefer them, I would love to hear it

Cody


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 3, 2012

photocodo wrote:
I was asking for personal opionions about gear choice not personal opinions about who is qualified to respond to certain posts. So that being said, if anyone actually has an opinion about aider and/or daisy preferences and why you prefer them, I would love to hear it Cody


Sorry you don't like my answer. I've got hundreds if not thousands of aid pitches logged so, that being said, I'm certain you wouldn't be interested in my opinion on aider daisy combo's. Obviously the one you're using isn't working and your google is broken?

Anyway, you seem to have it all figured out so... good luck.


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By photocodo
From Hendersonville, NC
Nov 3, 2012
The "crack"

Not a single post you have given here has anything to do with my original question. Seems like you are trying to antagonize, not help. What aiders do you prefer? and what daisys do you use and why do you prefer them.


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By T.C.
From Whittier, NC
Nov 3, 2012

I forgot to add, +1 for the Yates 5 steps.


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By Reginald McChufferton
Nov 3, 2012

photocodo wrote:
Not a single post you have given here has anything to do with my original question. Seems like you are trying to antagonize, not help. What aiders do you prefer? and what daisys do you use and why do you prefer them.


I make my own etriers and adjustable daisies similar to Metolius' 5 step and yates adj. daisy out of bulk webbing and some old tie down straps. Two each.

I prefer this system because it's simple, versatile and I'm fast with it. And that's the system that you should use. The one you're fast and efficient with not the one some dork on the internet told you they read about someplace else on the internet.

Every possible aid system (and a few that seem pretty damn impossible to me) can be found, studied and memorized by digging into the link I posted. None of that will do you any good without getting in some mileage. Although I've been using basically the same system for several years it has changed alot from when I started aiding and will continue to change as technology changes and my own personal preferences change.

You will not find the information you are looking for here.


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By John McNamee
Administrator
From Littleton, CO
Nov 3, 2012
Artist Tears P3

Buy a couple of Yates wall ladders and 2 traditional aiders. Learn to use them correctly. Simple, no fuss and fast. Dicking around with adjustables just slow me down.


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By ParkerKempf
From atlanta, GA
Nov 3, 2012
sweet belay on El Cap Spire, Salathe Wall El Capitan

i've done a fair amount of aid climbing (300+ pitches?)
i have tried many different varieties of setups but have found that "speed" daisies just get in the way.
2 sewn daisies girthed to your belay loop and 2 yates wall ladders attached to the ends of your daisies with a keylocking straight gate of your preference (mine is the petzl spirit) and of course the lovely fifi hook.

remember, when yer on a wall
1. Don't Die
2. Don't Bail
and youll get to the top


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By photocodo
From Hendersonville, NC
Nov 5, 2012
The "crack"

Do people typically prefer nylon daisys or dyneema? The reason I ask is that I am about 235lbs (definitelly not a small boy) and I feel that the nylon might give me a big of an advantage when it comes to body weight only placements. Having a bit of stretch seems like it would be beneficial for a bigger guy like myself. Is my reasoning off?
also they are cheaper which is never a bad thing...


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By Jon H
From Northern NJ
Nov 5, 2012
At the matching crux

photocodo wrote:
Do people typically prefer nylon daisys or dyneema? The reason I ask is that I am about 235lbs (definitelly not a small boy) and I feel that the nylon might give me a big of an advantage when it comes to body weight only placements. Having a bit of stretch seems like it would be beneficial for a bigger guy like myself. Is my reasoning off? also they are cheaper which is never a bad thing...


Your reasoning is way off. Your daisy could be made of steel cable and it wouldn't make a difference. Daisies should (theoretically) only take a static load. And regardless, if you do fall on your daisy, the miniscule amount of extra stretch that nylon has over dyneema is mostly irrelevant. It's gonna hurt no matter what.


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By csproul
From Rancho Cordova, CA
Nov 5, 2012
Summit of Wolf's Head with Pingora in the background

Jon H wrote:
Your reasoning is way off. Your daisy could be made of steel cable and it wouldn't make a difference. Daisies should (theoretically) only take a static load. And regardless, if you do fall on your daisy, the miniscule amount of extra stretch that nylon has over dyneema is mostly irrelevant. It's gonna hurt no matter what.

I disagree. I think you can feel the difference. Daisy falls are to be avoided, of course, but they do happen and I think that you CAN feel the difference between a nylon daisy and a dyneema one.


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By cieneguita
Nov 5, 2012

TWO adjustable daisys

5 step alpine aiders for short routes

yates 5/6 steps for bigger things.

20 years ago I tried the double aider thing-- stupid.

carry one extra aider or sling for tying an aider in the event x happens.


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By Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Nov 5, 2012
Russ

Two non adjustable daisy chains and a couple sets of whatever aider you like. Oh, and make sure they are FISH or yer gonna die (sometime anyway)


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By photocodo
From Hendersonville, NC
Nov 5, 2012
The "crack"

Russ, Im thinking about going with your aiders, just got to save up a bit more $$ though. Cant put a price on american quality though. Thinking about an Atom Smasher too for a crag pack or single day haul bag. Love your stuff.


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By Alex Swan
From West
Nov 5, 2012
Rather Grand

Russ Walling wrote:
Two non adjustable daisy chains and a couple sets of whatever aider you like. Oh, and make sure they are FISH or yer gonna die (sometime anyway)



haha +1


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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Nov 12, 2012

black death wrote:
TWO adjustable daisys

Amen. The adjustable Yates daisies are marvelous. They are the single most important piece of gear that affects a climber's speed. When I started aid climbing I used conventional pocketed daisies and a fifi. After awhile I switched out to the adjustable daisies and noticed an instant 30% speed increase, even on the very first pitch I used them on. Note that it has to be the Yates daisies. The Metolius and Petzl ones cannot be released under load which makes it very hard to get high in the aiders and almost impossible to top step. The bad thing about the Yates daisies is that they are only rated for 5kN and they wear out quickly. Expect to only get 3 grade VI walls out of them, as compared to maybe 30+ for conventional daisies.


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