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Jan 21, 2013
on the trip
frankstoneline wrote:
Thank god we have this 5.12 smashing he-man behemoth to put us in our places... Ability to climb a grade isn't prerequisite to having an opinion on ethics.



My dog has an equally informed opinion. That is why we have such eloquent conversations.

Even if your hyperbolic whining isn't helping the conversation, I am sure it makes you feel better.
Senior Hernandez
Joined Apr 5, 2011
27 points
Jan 21, 2013
Toofast
Tonto wrote:
My dog has an equally informed opinion. That is why we have such eloquent conversations. Even if your hyperbolic whining isn't helping the conversation, I am sure it makes you feel better.


Are you insinuating that people who don't climb 11s or 12s are as uninformed as a dog?
Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Joined Jun 7, 2006
3,344 points
Jan 21, 2013
I guess i'm not a "local" , I live 45 minutes away. This shit has been happening with sport areas since the '80's- it was wrong then and it's wrong now. it's called litter.. i have no problem removing this junk...
There's no other rock in the Rio Grande Gorge ??
john strand
From southern colo
Joined May 22, 2008
2,279 points
Jan 21, 2013
maybe we should all go to timy's magic cave and bring the climbs down to our level...I can install a cabinet handle ladder and it should be ok with all involved. nick manning
From superior,az
Joined Jan 14, 2013
7 points
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop
Went this weekend. The funny thing was how tiny and uninteresting the "cave" feature was. I would call it "neat" used in the same voice my mom used in response to my first attempt at a mustache.
Lots of glue......grid bolted with fixed chain draws and a dirty dusty floor. Timy I am sorry. Sorry you spent four years of your life in there.
What a waste of time.
thomas ellis
From abq
Joined Oct 12, 2009
1,652 points
Jan 21, 2013


This is for all the 5.10 crushers who cant climb anything at the BAT CAVE. 92 Bitch.
Would a 5.10 crusher explain why they care so much about routes they cant climb again? If you cant even pull yourself onto the glue routes at the bat cave. Why would you waist your time to go there? It baffle's me why someone who cant climb there would waist there time bitching about it and even going out of there way to clean the place up. Its kind of like making out with your buddy's fat girlfriend after she gives him a blowjob.
twattishness
Joined Jan 15, 2013
0 points
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop
I think it was Timy who couldn't climb anything in the "cave". Hence all the glue ons... thomas ellis
From abq
Joined Oct 12, 2009
1,652 points
Jan 21, 2013
thomas ellis wrote:
I think it was Timy who couldn't climb anything in the "cave". Hence all the glue ons...


He should have left it all natural so the 5.10 crushers could dominate the place, hu? I think you could be onto some thing.
twattishness
Joined Jan 15, 2013
0 points
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop
I think he should of left it for 5.14+ climbers. thomas ellis
From abq
Joined Oct 12, 2009
1,652 points
Jan 21, 2013
thomas ellis wrote:
I think he should of left it for 5.14+ climbers.


That's funny, Its ok for 5.14+ climbers to chisel choss hu? classic.

So what your thinking is that place should have been bolted ground up on hooks, and then all you would need is a toothbrush to clean of the holds? Your fuckin stupid.

Dude if Shama would have new about it before Timy, it would have been a destination for sure, It would have been stacked with all natural 5.14 and up test pieces. That rock is of the highest quality. its a shame
twattishness
Joined Jan 15, 2013
0 points
Jan 21, 2013
epic onsight-11c wrote:
This is for all the 5.10 crushers who cant climb anything at the BAT CAVE. 92 Bitch. Would a 5.10 crusher explain why they care so much about routes they cant climb again? If you cant even pull yourself onto the glue routes at the bat cave. Why would you waist your time to go there? It baffle's me why someone who cant climb there would waist there time bitching about it and even going out of there way to clean the place up. Its kind of like making out with your buddy's fat girlfriend after she gives him a blowjob.


In my eyes it matters predominately from the standpoint of the reputation it gives climbers as a user group. If this is what we are known for it's less and less likely we'll be tolerated on public lands.
This is like asking why someone is upset because their sister got raped. "I mean, it's not like you were gunna shag her man"
frankstoneline
Joined Apr 23, 2009
22 points
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop
11c,
Why so angry and defensive? And supposing between the lines.

Frank stone.......+1
thomas ellis
From abq
Joined Oct 12, 2009
1,652 points
Administrator
Jan 21, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
Joe may have had his head in the 5 gal. pail too long. Please forgive him. It may explain the trouble he is having with basic spelling, grammar and ability to understand why somebody would care about a crag being made to look like the inside of a derelict's trailer or how the chip and glue fest is way beyond what most of us sport climb developers think is acceptable. It doesn't take a rabid anti- reinforcement, comfortizing choss peeler to see this is way overboard. M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,761 points
Jan 22, 2013
Grand Teton selfie
It doesn't matter that I'll never travel to a crave that looks like trash now, it's the fact that these actions make the community look bad. It literally can be one guy who ruins things for everyone else. Jeremy Riesberg
From Boulder, CO
Joined Jun 3, 2012
22 points
Jan 22, 2013
A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA...
epic onsight-11c wrote:
Would a 5.10 crusher explain why they care so much about routes they cant climb again? If you cant even pull yourself onto the glue routes at the bat cave. Why would you waist your time to go there? It baffle's me why someone who cant climb there would waist there time bitching about it and even going out of there way to clean the place up.


epic troll boy calling c.roth a 5.10 crusher: epic fail.
Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Joined Jun 24, 2006
985 points
Administrator
Jan 22, 2013
A Very Not Snowy Christmas...
Slab - hey man... long time. Wow ya that's fu*ck... I was referring to the 5 gallons of bucket and the hold sculpting with glue with my comment about the Northeast. It honestly doesn't surprise me one bit though that that vandalism/chipping is happening at the Gunks. Actually, that's exactly where I'd expect it... slash their tires if you see them in the lots (edit: j/k).

I would suspect you know who's doing it... why don't u guys step in and bang some heads and report them to the preserve where applicable? Unfort seems like the private land owner who you confronted doesn't care in which case there's not much to do except call this asshole out publicly. A vandalism arrest by the preserve would probable send a signal to any younger folks but I would suspect the issue is an older person who might be hard to get proof. If you think hunting cameras would help I can get them on prodeals and would be glad to get a few for you guys if you wanted to purchase some. Aight well peace... and I got some hard and big projs for you too so if ur interested hit me up.

Peace,

Mo
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,423 points
Administrator
Jan 22, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
I'm thinking that was meant to be a private that somehow turned into a post.

That guy in the tough guy picture actually looks kind of scary. He looks like a psycho who strangles boulderers and keeps their bodies in the basement
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,761 points
Administrator
Jan 22, 2013
A Very Not Snowy Christmas...
David Sahalie wrote:
kinda like this guy?


just like that one... ;-)

P.S. David - I edit'd the class out for u... I'm not trying to be an 'internet' tough guy just hear/learn about problem (albeit with some sarcasm (tires)). But in all honesty, i would think people like slab know who's doing what up there and should be able to have some input or take action in some way, no?

Anyone care to name names?
Morgan Patterson
Joined Oct 13, 2009
8,423 points
Jan 22, 2013
David Sahalie wrote:
kinda like this guy?

DAMN, that forearm vein is a FIREHOSE.
slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 22, 2013
Beaver Mountain
slab wrote:
DAMN, that forearm vein is a FIREHOSE.


Taping up for the workday, nice technique Slabdyno! The gorilla mask would actually reduce the fearsome look.

SWclimber, Tiny is back with Madrock now.

W
Williampenner
From The 505
Joined Sep 30, 2006
560 points
Jan 22, 2013
on the trip
southwesternclimber wrote:
I hope the BLM does go in and shut the cave down. If you buy La Sportiva products you are buying the glue.



And this, once again, proves that climbers have always been climbers own worst enemies. Most of our access problems are not a result of a particular ethical choice. They are usually a result of multiple ethical beliefs, all based on dogmatism, which constantly fight for fascist supremacy.

Your last quote says all that needs to be said about the informed nature of the anti argument. Well put.
Senior Hernandez
Joined Apr 5, 2011
27 points
Administrator
Jan 22, 2013
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lich...
So, Tonto, what would it take to persuade you that the treatment of the cave may have been a bad idea? I suspect that nothing will and you will simply block out anything that doesn't go along with what you want to do. It is similar with fanatics on the other side like k Nichols. By the way, I think there are plenty of people who are very experienced, and not narrow minded who think (and have expressed) that the place looks like a mess. If the situation is egregious enough, I don't think being from out of state negates their opinions.

There are times to be revolutionary and break the rules, but when a large number of people are saying you are wrong, you better be willing to double and triple check yourself .
M Sprague
From New England
Joined Nov 9, 2006
5,761 points
Jan 22, 2013
maybe tonto is a noob... you should be smart enough to know diarrheaing 50 gallons of glue onto a chossy roof and turning it into a dump is stupid and wrong. its kind of common sense. where are all the advanced elite climbers sympathizing with these ethics? climbing in the bat cave? LOL. slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 23, 2013
Being strong or skilled or both doesn't give someone the right to just do as they please on public land.

I know some mountain bikers who wish this wasn't the case. Just because someone has the balls to ride a big drop doesn't give them the right to head into the forest and start cutting trail, and building features.

Riders have been fined for building, and even just for riding on bootleg trails. One rider was banned, from an entire ranger district, for 6 months for unauthorized trail repairs.

Seems to me that this level of construction is the same as trail building. I may be a has been who'll never go to the Bat Cave, but I do know something about what it takes to get permission to do construction on public land.

If this level of modification is typical of new sport area's I can't imagine it will be long before land managers feel the need to step in and require climbers to do a full NEPA for new area's.
Tim McCabe
Joined Oct 15, 2006
156 points
Jan 23, 2013
girl40
Tim McCabe wrote:
Being strong or skilled or both doesn't give someone the right to just do as they please on public land.


Being strong or skilled doesn't mean they aren't dumb as a stump, either. Or completely out of touch with nature and so deeply into their own idiosyncratic private Idaho they lost all perspective. And you can tell at least the latter is the case here, if by no other means, than by the blinding self-absorption of the speaker hanger (and get a frigging nano and some sport buds, no one wants to hear your music).

In no climbing world is gluing on anything approaching this ten-gallon scale acceptable. And when the level of crag - let alone hold - comfortizing and personalization begins to resemble terraforming, even the most blind, delusional, or loyal climber should hopefully be able to recognize the situation long ago left the realm of 'ethics' and strayed hard into outright vandalism of a public resource.

This is exactly the sort of shit that gives climbing a bad rep with some land managers and, in this case, deservedly so.
Healyje
Joined Jan 31, 2006
127 points


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