true question is, with all this overwhelming disgusting proof, why are there so many dooshbags coming out of the woodwork to defend these actions? losers.

I heard from a pretty good source old chisel fairfield was getting dumped by sponsors. The photos were just too ugly.

Wow those photos were shocking. I am not a fan of glue to begin with but that stuff is just way over the top.

A previous post mentioned the Bat Cave was managed by the "FS" (Forest Service). The Caballo Mountains, in which the Bat Cave resides, are managed by the Bureau of Land Management.

The terraces do prevent erosion and make belaying safer but the exposed rebar is a dangerous hazard. The ones at Maple are much more appealing and safe. The glue and trash are completely ridiculous and have no place at a climbing location or anywhere for that matter.

If development is going to be done without permission from the BLM it should at least be discrete, safe and tasteful.

I think the pics give all the emphasis that that the initial statements somehow lacked. I agree that the terraces prevent erosion and perhaps make for a safer belay but they were done with the worst of taste, as for the rest, the empty buckets speak "gallons."
Very simply, ethics are not our own, not when they jeopardize the access of the whole community to the only 200ft cave in the state, not when, literal gallons of glue are dumped to full on create holds. There was talk that complaining of gluing could end up getting areas closed to us climbers, bulls**t. The act of gluing wilderness areas, BLM areas, has the very, very real possibility of closing those areas.
As stated above, what was done was short sighted and selfish, and such practices are in no way the act of a single individual. Very simply this current round of outrage is not simply aimed at a single individual, it is aimed at the idea that extreme, selfish, modification of rock is acceptable as long as you're strong. It directly targets the practice of ignoring the community's multiple messages against such practices in favor of your own "futuristic" view of climbing.
Whatever grey area there is, The Bat Cave is far far beyond it, and I'd truly hate for the next great crag to suffer a similar fate.

Efff that S&$#. Why can't we just leave the glue, chisles, and IPOD speakers at home an enjoy the natural beauty of the outdoors? Really, a hanger for speakers??? Not everything needs to be climbed. If the rock sucks, move on and look for something that doesn't. Freakin' stop beating the outdoors into submission.

Not to distract from the general debate, but I would like to put forth the following as possible route names/renames at the bat-cave and other locations like it
Glunicorn
Into the Wild Glue Yonder
Cordon Glu
GlueBerries
All outa Goo
Glue Whale
Fonte Glu
Timy Sings the Glues
End of the Gluniverse

These are a few, and the work of better minds than mine

To the tune of Only Fairies Wear Boot's by Black Sabbath, Only Fairies Glu Routes.

It's pretty awesome that the last five posters are all beginners who will never be able to climb in the cave anyway, funny stuff guys.


I wonder why he ignores you and continues doing what he does? You have such an informed consensus, one where terraces are on the same level as a climb manufactured out of glue. Priceless.


It's OK guys, you have a man crush on your anti hero, I get it. Can you PM him instead of making NM look like a bunch of idiots? That would be great.

I would be all for a conversation if someone actually wanted to discuss the merits of crag development sans personal attacks, but this thread seems to be dominated by the 5.10 crusher right now, and that conversation is not worth having.

so because you only climb at a certain grade you can't have an opinion on gluing and chipping?

timyfairfield.com/Contact

I guess i'm not a "local" , I live 45 minutes away. This shit has been happening with sport areas since the '80's- it was wrong then and it's wrong now. it's called litter.. i have no problem removing this junk...
There's no other rock in the Rio Grande Gorge ??

maybe we should all go to timy's magic cave and bring the climbs down to our level...I can install a cabinet handle ladder and it should be ok with all involved.

Went this weekend. The funny thing was how tiny and uninteresting the "cave" feature was. I would call it "neat" used in the same voice my mom used in response to my first attempt at a mustache.
Lots of glue......grid bolted with fixed chain draws and a dirty dusty floor. Timy I am sorry. Sorry you spent four years of your life in there.
What a waste of time.

I think it was Timy who couldn't climb anything in the "cave". Hence all the glue ons...

I think he should of left it for 5.14+ climbers.