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By slab
Jan 16, 2013

true question is, with all this overwhelming disgusting proof, why are there so many dooshbags coming out of the woodwork to defend these actions? losers.


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By southwesternclimber
Jan 16, 2013

I heard from a pretty good source old chisel fairfield was getting dumped by sponsors. The photos were just too ugly.


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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Jan 17, 2013
Toofast

Wow those photos were shocking. I am not a fan of glue to begin with but that stuff is just way over the top.


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By Dan Carter
From Las Cruces, NM
Jan 18, 2013

A previous post mentioned the Bat Cave was managed by the "FS" (Forest Service). The Caballo Mountains, in which the Bat Cave resides, are managed by the Bureau of Land Management.

The terraces do prevent erosion and make belaying safer but the exposed rebar is a dangerous hazard. The ones at Maple are much more appealing and safe. The glue and trash are completely ridiculous and have no place at a climbing location or anywhere for that matter.

If development is going to be done without permission from the BLM it should at least be discrete, safe and tasteful.


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By bking7
Jan 19, 2013

I think the pics give all the emphasis that that the initial statements somehow lacked. I agree that the terraces prevent erosion and perhaps make for a safer belay but they were done with the worst of taste, as for the rest, the empty buckets speak "gallons."
Very simply, ethics are not our own, not when they jeopardize the access of the whole community to the only 200ft cave in the state, not when, literal gallons of glue are dumped to full on create holds. There was talk that complaining of gluing could end up getting areas closed to us climbers, bulls**t. The act of gluing wilderness areas, BLM areas, has the very, very real possibility of closing those areas.
As stated above, what was done was short sighted and selfish, and such practices are in no way the act of a single individual. Very simply this current round of outrage is not simply aimed at a single individual, it is aimed at the idea that extreme, selfish, modification of rock is acceptable as long as you're strong. It directly targets the practice of ignoring the community's multiple messages against such practices in favor of your own "futuristic" view of climbing.
Whatever grey area there is, The Bat Cave is far far beyond it, and I'd truly hate for the next great crag to suffer a similar fate.


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By Marcy
From Tempe/Tuscon, AZ
Jan 20, 2013
the tornado

Efff that S&$#. Why can't we just leave the glue, chisles, and IPOD speakers at home an enjoy the natural beauty of the outdoors? Really, a hanger for speakers??? Not everything needs to be climbed. If the rock sucks, move on and look for something that doesn't. Freakin' stop beating the outdoors into submission.


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By bking7
Jan 21, 2013

Not to distract from the general debate, but I would like to put forth the following as possible route names/renames at the bat-cave and other locations like it
Glunicorn
Into the Wild Glue Yonder
Cordon Glu
GlueBerries
All outa Goo
Glue Whale
Fonte Glu
Timy Sings the Glues
End of the Gluniverse

These are a few, and the work of better minds than mine


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By frankstoneline
Jan 21, 2013

bking7 wrote:
Not to distract from the general debate, but I would like to put forth the following as possible route names/renames at the bat-cave and other locations like it Glunicorn Into the Wild Glue Yonder Cordon Glu GlueBerries All outa Goo Glue Whale Fonte Glu Timy Sings the Glues End of the Gluniverse These are a few, and the work of better minds than mine


Bullet the glue sky
glue suede shoes
glues brothers 2000
gluetius maximus
glue-balls


...i like this game.

edit: what about "hitchhikers guide to the glueniverse"?


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By Tim McCabe
Jan 21, 2013

To the tune of Only Fairies Wear Boot's by Black Sabbath, Only Fairies Glu Routes.



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By Senior Hernandez
Jan 21, 2013
on the trip

It's pretty awesome that the last five posters are all beginners who will never be able to climb in the cave anyway, funny stuff guys.


I wonder why he ignores you and continues doing what he does? You have such an informed consensus, one where terraces are on the same level as a climb manufactured out of glue. Priceless.


It's OK guys, you have a man crush on your anti hero, I get it. Can you PM him instead of making NM look like a bunch of idiots? That would be great.

I would be all for a conversation if someone actually wanted to discuss the merits of crag development sans personal attacks, but this thread seems to be dominated by the 5.10 crusher right now, and that conversation is not worth having.


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By nick manning
From superior,az
Jan 21, 2013

so because you only climb at a certain grade you can't have an opinion on gluing and chipping?


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By Glenn Schuler
From Monument, Co.
Jan 21, 2013
A grey fox skull wedged in a crack 100' up on a FA I was working on - don't see that every day...

Tonto wrote:
Can you PM him instead of making NM look like a bunch of idiots?


Too late, Timy and his buckets of glue, speaker hangers and trash heap already took care of that for you.


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By nick manning
From superior,az
Jan 21, 2013

timyfairfield.com/Contact


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By frankstoneline
Jan 21, 2013

Tonto wrote:
It's pretty awesome that the last five posters are all beginners who will never be able to climb in the cave anyway, funny stuff guys. I wonder why he ignores you and continues doing what he does? You have such an informed consensus, one where terraces are on the same level as a climb manufactured out of glue. Priceless. It's OK guys, you have a man crush on your anti hero, I get it. Can you PM him instead of making NM look like a bunch of idiots? That would be great. I would be all for a conversation if someone actually wanted to discuss the merits of crag development sans personal attacks, but this thread seems to be dominated by the 5.10 crusher right now, and that conversation is not worth having.


Thank god we have this 5.12 smashing he-man behemoth to put us in our places...
Ability to climb a grade isn't prerequisite to having an opinion on ethics.


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By Senior Hernandez
Jan 21, 2013
on the trip

frankstoneline wrote:
Thank god we have this 5.12 smashing he-man behemoth to put us in our places... Ability to climb a grade isn't prerequisite to having an opinion on ethics.



My dog has an equally informed opinion. That is why we have such eloquent conversations.

Even if your hyperbolic whining isn't helping the conversation, I am sure it makes you feel better.


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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Jan 21, 2013
Toofast

Tonto wrote:
My dog has an equally informed opinion. That is why we have such eloquent conversations. Even if your hyperbolic whining isn't helping the conversation, I am sure it makes you feel better.


Are you insinuating that people who don't climb 11s or 12s are as uninformed as a dog?


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By john strand
From southern colo
Jan 21, 2013

I guess i'm not a "local" , I live 45 minutes away. This shit has been happening with sport areas since the '80's- it was wrong then and it's wrong now. it's called litter.. i have no problem removing this junk...
There's no other rock in the Rio Grande Gorge ??


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By nick manning
From superior,az
Jan 21, 2013

maybe we should all go to timy's magic cave and bring the climbs down to our level...I can install a cabinet handle ladder and it should be ok with all involved.


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By thomas ellis
From abq
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop

Went this weekend. The funny thing was how tiny and uninteresting the "cave" feature was. I would call it "neat" used in the same voice my mom used in response to my first attempt at a mustache.
Lots of glue......grid bolted with fixed chain draws and a dirty dusty floor. Timy I am sorry. Sorry you spent four years of your life in there.
What a waste of time.


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By twattishness
Jan 21, 2013



This is for all the 5.10 crushers who cant climb anything at the BAT CAVE. 92 Bitch.
Would a 5.10 crusher explain why they care so much about routes they cant climb again? If you cant even pull yourself onto the glue routes at the bat cave. Why would you waist your time to go there? It baffle's me why someone who cant climb there would waist there time bitching about it and even going out of there way to clean the place up. Its kind of like making out with your buddy's fat girlfriend after she gives him a blowjob.


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By thomas ellis
From abq
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop

I think it was Timy who couldn't climb anything in the "cave". Hence all the glue ons...


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By twattishness
Jan 21, 2013

thomas ellis wrote:
I think it was Timy who couldn't climb anything in the "cave". Hence all the glue ons...


He should have left it all natural so the 5.10 crushers could dominate the place, hu? I think you could be onto some thing.


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By thomas ellis
From abq
Jan 21, 2013
Mint jullop

I think he should of left it for 5.14+ climbers.


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By twattishness
Jan 21, 2013

thomas ellis wrote:
I think he should of left it for 5.14+ climbers.


That's funny, Its ok for 5.14+ climbers to chisel choss hu? classic.

So what your thinking is that place should have been bolted ground up on hooks, and then all you would need is a toothbrush to clean of the holds? Your fuckin stupid.

Dude if Shama would have new about it before Timy, it would have been a destination for sure, It would have been stacked with all natural 5.14 and up test pieces. That rock is of the highest quality. its a shame


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By frankstoneline
Jan 21, 2013

epic onsight-11c wrote:
This is for all the 5.10 crushers who cant climb anything at the BAT CAVE. 92 Bitch. Would a 5.10 crusher explain why they care so much about routes they cant climb again? If you cant even pull yourself onto the glue routes at the bat cave. Why would you waist your time to go there? It baffle's me why someone who cant climb there would waist there time bitching about it and even going out of there way to clean the place up. Its kind of like making out with your buddy's fat girlfriend after she gives him a blowjob.


In my eyes it matters predominately from the standpoint of the reputation it gives climbers as a user group. If this is what we are known for it's less and less likely we'll be tolerated on public lands.
This is like asking why someone is upset because their sister got raped. "I mean, it's not like you were gunna shag her man"


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