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Jan 16, 2013
on the trip
c roth wrote:
Eric, I'm not sure if there's a way to remove sika, maybe this is something we need to discuss with NM CRAG and the Access Fund.



This would be awesome, not only would the Bat Crag, The Temple and Socorro get a facelift, but Uncle Tom can go fix his mess of his down in Socorro and "the crew" can go fix their mess at the cave.
Senior Hernandez
Joined Apr 5, 2011
27 points
Jan 16, 2013
Gerle creek at loon lake
Really shocked by the glue.. and the buckets left at the base?!

But is terracing so bad? Smith rocks has a bunch and I thought it was quite a responsible thing to do in order to avoid erosion.
Owen Summerscales
From Los Alamos, NM
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,022 points
Jan 16, 2013
Sounds pretty ugly. Sounds like a group of spoiled rich white boys who think they own the world. Maybe I can start by taking a hammer to some of this crew's previous development as they don't seem to care what anyone else thinks. Screaming Jihad would be alot harder without holds. southwesternclimber
Joined Jan 14, 2013
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
CaptainMo wrote:
whoa... those photos really are egregious. You could NEVER get away with that shit back here in the NE.


Actually, you can. And its happening all over NY state, especially at the Gunks. And Gunks rock is HARD to chip. I've seen BLANK roofs with 17 holds attempted to be chipped into them. Same shit, chisels and other gear found stashed, the accused is Timy's counterpart. What did one private land owner allowing it say? "One mans chipping is another man's cleaning". But its happening on the preserve.

Table Rock. I remember scoping this roof prior to the heinous chip fest that apparently ensued. Or wait, I mean cleaning. Just cleaning. Lol give me a f'in break you pu$$y chipper defenders. If it doesn't go, leave it be. Some of the moves were already done before the intermediates were chipped. Its pussies that chip. YOU F'IN PUSSIES. MAN UP. or leave it for the kids that are BURNING YOUR OLD OVER THE HILL A$$E$ OFF. They will do it.

Oh yeh. Here's the pix:
















Liable my a$$. When its the truth, there's nothing a lawyer can do.

Facts are facts. Stop chipping if you don't want to look like a pu$$y dumbass idiot.
slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
Sh!t, i forgot the BEST ONE!

slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
on the trip
So this isn't just a NM problem? Dang, there goes the premise of the whole thread! Senior Hernandez
Joined Apr 5, 2011
27 points
Jan 16, 2013
i'm sure the miners would be happy to blow up the glue! nick manning
From superior,az
Joined Jan 14, 2013
7 points
Jan 16, 2013
hating is my job. i've been paid to troll internet forums FOR YEARS.

this isn't hating tho, its just the truth. The shits happening. If its ok, and there's 2 sides to the story, then why do they hide it?
slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
Beaver Mountain
@Slab, I have lots of silver to sell you if you want to come out to NM for another visit.
You can crush the glue off the rock between Red Bulls. Also, I have a hat of yours from a previous trip.

@David S., what are you hoping to do here other than stir the 5-gallon glue pot?

W
Williampenner
From The 505
Joined Sep 30, 2006
560 points
Jan 16, 2013
Williampenner wrote:
@David S., what are you hoping to do here other than stir the 5-gallon glue pot? W



i think he has to carry someones crash pad...
slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
Beaver Mountain
slab wrote:
i think he has to carry someones crash pad...


D S seems like a used mattress type of fella rolling along with an old carpet swatch. Germ reservoirs both.
Williampenner
From The 505
Joined Sep 30, 2006
560 points
Jan 16, 2013
OMG! AND HEAVEN FORBID A RAG should report on this. Given its a real issue, with real consequences for the climbing community at large. Its like the newsroom in the rags, without the intelligence or wit. slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya
Now you do what they told ya

Now your under control

Fuck you, I wont do what you tell me
twattishness
Joined Jan 15, 2013
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
epic onsight-11c wrote:
Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now you do what they told ya Now your under control Fuck you, I wont do what you tell me

ok bro..., 1992 is deader than abercrombie. welcome to the future. create a new screen name.

next.
slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
true question is, with all this overwhelming disgusting proof, why are there so many dooshbags coming out of the woodwork to defend these actions? losers. slab
Joined Jan 6, 2012
0 points
Jan 16, 2013
I heard from a pretty good source old chisel fairfield was getting dumped by sponsors. The photos were just too ugly. southwesternclimber
Joined Jan 14, 2013
0 points
Jan 17, 2013
Toofast
Wow those photos were shocking. I am not a fan of glue to begin with but that stuff is just way over the top. Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Joined Jun 7, 2006
3,344 points
Jan 18, 2013
A previous post mentioned the Bat Cave was managed by the "FS" (Forest Service). The Caballo Mountains, in which the Bat Cave resides, are managed by the Bureau of Land Management.

The terraces do prevent erosion and make belaying safer but the exposed rebar is a dangerous hazard. The ones at Maple are much more appealing and safe. The glue and trash are completely ridiculous and have no place at a climbing location or anywhere for that matter.

If development is going to be done without permission from the BLM it should at least be discrete, safe and tasteful.
Dan Carter
From Las Cruces, NM
Joined Jan 29, 2008
284 points
Jan 19, 2013
I think the pics give all the emphasis that that the initial statements somehow lacked. I agree that the terraces prevent erosion and perhaps make for a safer belay but they were done with the worst of taste, as for the rest, the empty buckets speak "gallons."
Very simply, ethics are not our own, not when they jeopardize the access of the whole community to the only 200ft cave in the state, not when, literal gallons of glue are dumped to full on create holds. There was talk that complaining of gluing could end up getting areas closed to us climbers, bulls**t. The act of gluing wilderness areas, BLM areas, has the very, very real possibility of closing those areas.
As stated above, what was done was short sighted and selfish, and such practices are in no way the act of a single individual. Very simply this current round of outrage is not simply aimed at a single individual, it is aimed at the idea that extreme, selfish, modification of rock is acceptable as long as you're strong. It directly targets the practice of ignoring the community's multiple messages against such practices in favor of your own "futuristic" view of climbing.
Whatever grey area there is, The Bat Cave is far far beyond it, and I'd truly hate for the next great crag to suffer a similar fate.
bking7
Joined May 31, 2011
7 points
Jan 20, 2013
Efff that S&$#. Why can't we just leave the glue, chisles, and IPOD speakers at home an enjoy the natural beauty of the outdoors? Really, a hanger for speakers??? Not everything needs to be climbed. If the rock sucks, move on and look for something that doesn't. Freakin' stop beating the outdoors into submission. Marcy
From Tempe/Tuscon, AZ
Joined Oct 9, 2006
1,490 points
Jan 21, 2013
Not to distract from the general debate, but I would like to put forth the following as possible route names/renames at the bat-cave and other locations like it
Glunicorn
Into the Wild Glue Yonder
Cordon Glu
GlueBerries
All outa Goo
Glue Whale
Fonte Glu
Timy Sings the Glues
End of the Gluniverse

These are a few, and the work of better minds than mine
bking7
Joined May 31, 2011
7 points
Jan 21, 2013
bking7 wrote:
Not to distract from the general debate, but I would like to put forth the following as possible route names/renames at the bat-cave and other locations like it Glunicorn Into the Wild Glue Yonder Cordon Glu GlueBerries All outa Goo Glue Whale Fonte Glu Timy Sings the Glues End of the Gluniverse These are a few, and the work of better minds than mine


Bullet the glue sky
glue suede shoes
glues brothers 2000
gluetius maximus
glue-balls


...i like this game.

edit: what about "hitchhikers guide to the glueniverse"?
frankstoneline
Joined Apr 23, 2009
22 points
Jan 21, 2013
To the tune of Only Fairies Wear Boot's by Black Sabbath, Only Fairies Glu Routes.


Tim McCabe
Joined Oct 15, 2006
156 points
Jan 21, 2013
on the trip
It's pretty awesome that the last five posters are all beginners who will never be able to climb in the cave anyway, funny stuff guys.


I wonder why he ignores you and continues doing what he does? You have such an informed consensus, one where terraces are on the same level as a climb manufactured out of glue. Priceless.


It's OK guys, you have a man crush on your anti hero, I get it. Can you PM him instead of making NM look like a bunch of idiots? That would be great.

I would be all for a conversation if someone actually wanted to discuss the merits of crag development sans personal attacks, but this thread seems to be dominated by the 5.10 crusher right now, and that conversation is not worth having.
Senior Hernandez
Joined Apr 5, 2011
27 points
Jan 21, 2013
so because you only climb at a certain grade you can't have an opinion on gluing and chipping? nick manning
From superior,az
Joined Jan 14, 2013
7 points


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