Avalanche Wall 

I grew up in Santaquin and did most of these routes many times. #1 is a fun overhanging 11b. #2 wasn't there back in the day but wouldn't be much harder since that upper section is slab. #3 is probably a 10b or c and is a really good route. #4 is a newer route I onsighted shortly after someone added it. It seemed to be in the 11b/c range. #5 is a pretty good 11d that is slightly overhung and powerful in the middle and turns into a kind of scary slab up top. I've done #6 only once and don't remember it being that great.

That's awesome, we really appreciate your contribution. Thank you so much. We just need a few more people like you.

I sense sarcasm.

No Zoso, that's not sarcasm. It's genuine thanks. There are so many people with information, and it seems many of them are too afraid of the FA peeps. I can understand that. Anyone that can send a 14 could probably snap my 10d spine. I on the other hand am very agile and can run like the wind. Cole Fowden's comments are truly appreciated.

Not fear at all, just respect for all of the hard work I get to enjoy for free.
Your attitude as someone whom is owed this information is what I suspect causes the FA's memory loss.

I agree with Dale. The sense of entitlement is the issue here not the want for information.

I am entitled by many rights to spend countless hours and countless days hiking to countless crags photographing countless walls and spotting countless bolts to put together countless topos so that countless people can say what I'm doing is out of a sense of entitlement. I am entitled by god to do all of this so that when someone wants to climb, they can do so fully informed about the area they are climbing in. I am entitled to information about bolts placed on PUBLIC land. Everyone is entitled to climb here even if they don't have personal access to one of the almighty FA's. When you bolt a route on PUBLIC land, you are sending an invite to the masses. If they didn't know that, someone probably aught to tell them.

Just because you choose to spend "countless" amounts of your time does not entitle you to information. Nobody is saying people aren't entitled to climb on public land. The issue is that you think that because of your countless hours spent in the canyon you deserve something. Getting information from people is not a God given right. It is a personal choice to give it or withhold it. I thought you were done posting anyway? I propose this thread be locked. It is pathetic.

You are entitled to climb on PUBLIC land.Everyone is entitled to climb on PUBLIC land. We agree on this.

To say that you are entitled to information about bolts on said land, ... not so much. Why? How? By what legality?

You are entitled by God to go to Mountain Works and get the information. If you went with the attitude you display here...well we know how that must have worked out for you. (Nice God reference, but it does not make you seem anymore pleasant or reasonable, nor does it serve to validate your stance. Kinda seems like God gave you a personal commission though. Very nice for you!)

Twelve years of walking around and creating countless topos, huh. Eight areas and a few dozen topos is not countless. Get over yourself. If you were willing to do some work, spend some money, and climb off into the unknown, you could have put up a few hundred of your own routes there by now, on PUBLIC land, and posted all the info.

Just to clarify I am all for you posting up info on what you know and have researched. What I am now assuming you will never get is that your attitude sucks and no one owes you a thing.

Climbing is an adventure. Sometimes you can fail to achieve your goal, sometimes you may succeed. Embrace getting shut down and enjoy the adventure.

There is no reward in debating with the narcissistic so I will leave you to your delusions.

Agree with Dale. Post whatever you want. The feeling that you deserve information is the issue. I'm all for freedom of speech. Not so excited about all the shit flinging. The bickering back and forth is only counter productive. Never was much of an Orwell fan. I was always kind of partial to Stan and Jan Berenstain.

This all started with a simple "Thank you" not a simple you had better keep giving me the info I am entitled to. I was genuine in my thanks, not demanding of more.

It does seem awful odd that the 2 of you that are so against dissemination of information only recently set up accounts so that you might join the bandwagon and publicly put me in my place. Made much easier by the fact that it's probably pretty easy to find me in person and you on the contrary are not.

And really, there are many more routes and walls in this canyon. Perhaps my choice of calling them "countless" was a little over the top, and yes I was in a rant, but to sit behind the veil of the internet with no info on who you are as a person and say that I haven't done any footwork is over the top too. Or maybe you're someone everyone knows but you'd like to keep your true colors a secret.

Thank you Cole Fowden. I appreciate your comment, I appreciate your contribution.

You are right. I signed up 9 months ago and waited until yesterday to make my first comment on here so you wouldn't expect. My account is no more hidden than yours. I wouldn't know you if i saw you anymore than you me. I never stated that information was a bad thing. You can hand out all the information you want but expecting everyone to feel the same way about getting information out there is unrealistic. If people don't want to share it is there prerogative. Lets keep these pages to information only. When shit is flinging back and forth like on here, everybody gets dirty and nobody is happy. Hopefully cooler heads prevail.