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Astro-Knot ! 

YDS: 5.6 French: 4c Ewbanks: 14 UIAA: V ZA: 12 British: S 4b

   
Type:  Sport, 1 pitch, 60'
Consensus:  YDS: 5.6 French: 4c Ewbanks: 14 UIAA: V ZA: 12 British: S 4b [details]
FA: Andy Mason, Andrew Haag
New Route: Yes
Page Views: 1,621
Submitted By: Orphaned on Feb 22, 2010

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (12)
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Jennie leading Astro-Knot

Description 

Doesnt get much ez'r than this.

Location 

first sport climb you will see on the approach down. On rolling stones wall. Just as trail turns left at bottom of cliff band.

Protection 

bolts, chains


Photos of Astro-Knot ! Slideshow Add Photo
Bug at the start of the route.
Bug at the start of the route.
Astro-knot first bolt
Astro-knot first bolt

Comments on Astro-Knot ! Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated May 31, 2012
By Adam Block
From: Tucson, AZ
Mar 16, 2010
rating: 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a

Nice little mid-mountain easy route, exactly what I would like to see more of on Lemmon. I would like to see one more bolt before the first one. There's a 25 foot run out and there's ZERO reason for that on a beginner route, the 25 foot runout is the only thing that keeps me from calling it a great first lead, that's my only major complaint.

If you climb like I do and call anything 3 feet on either side of the bolt fair game you could make this route anything from a 5.5 to a 5.8 so there are some fun options at the crux (3rd bolt).
By Adam Block
From: Tucson, AZ
Apr 14, 2010
rating: 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a

It doesn't bother me or anybody else that's climbing 10s but we aren't running around Lemmon looking for 6s either. The run out is the only thing that would keep me from calling it a good first lead for a kid or the likes.

Also, there's a burr on the bottom link of the left chain [I fixed this so it's gone] that could damage a rope so get your ass back down here and take care of that!

Hope you're doing well and enjoying the climbing up there brother.
By Andrew Guice
May 2, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

Great addition. Now there's something for every skill level here. Thanks Haag & Mason
By 1Eric Rhicard
May 27, 2010

I would have added a low bolt on this one. If you are going to bolt it for the beginner, add a bolt at the bottom. Not that it is hard but the way the route climbs you end up 15 or 20 feet off the ground at the first bolt even though you have only climbed 10 feet. On the other hand maybe beginners should TR stuff until they can confidently climb 5.5 without a rope. This route is easily top-roped.
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jun 13, 2010

Here is the deal AH. It isn't about alleviating fear it is about reducing risk. On this climb a fall getting to the first bolt would mean a 20 footer to the ground. The rest of the way up this climb you have a lot of bolts to keep beginners safe. Beginners are going to be scared either way, a bolt will make it safe.

I fought with Jim on lots of routes where he wanted to put the first bolt 15 feet up and all the rest 6 feet apart. Does that make sense? The place where you are likely to get hurt by hitting the ground is the most run out.
By Jimbo
Jun 13, 2010

We didn't fight. We had a civil discourse. Where all the pros and cons were brought to the table and thoughtfully discussed. A mutually agreed upon resolution was then enacted which resulted in maximum benefit for all concerned.

P.S. Andrew your being cheap. You put a 5.6 sport route, add another bolt.
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jun 13, 2010

Damn, I thought I had won a fight. I never win a fight.
By Andy Mason
From: Brownsville, CA
Jun 13, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

I could see how someone might want a bolt for beginner climbers. The fact of the matter is it changes the whole experience of the climb and this route is not in a beginner area. If it was, then yes maybe it needs another bolt. But it's 5.5 to the first bolt...Seriously, I agree with Eric maybe beginners should TR routes until they can comfortably climb 5.5. without a rope for 15 feet. Dont't like it, go to the stronghold and climb some of their moderate routes, then come back and bitch about the bolt job here.
By Andrew Guice
Jun 13, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

Gunna have to agree with Mason on that one. I think if the idea of the first bolt 15 feet off the ground scares you, then this should be one of the last 5.6's you do and not the first. Climbing to the first bolt is easier then what the climb is rated. If anything is added to this route it should be a pg-13 on the rating and not a bolt. I herd one could set a top rope from above with ease.
By Jimbo
Jun 13, 2010

AMason,
You realize that instead of getting all Palin on us, you could benefit from Eric and my years of experience in doing new routes, and realize that we do know where the bolts should go more better than just about anyone in the whole wide world. If we say there should be a bolt, there should be a bolt. There's no salient way for you to argue against the wealth of knowledge and experience that we bring to the table. Accept it dude that's just the way it is.
If you need a bolt and hanger let us know we'll front you one so you can rush up there and fix your mistake.
Eric and I have argued, I mean discussed, your post at length, and we both forgive you for your misguided assertions. We forgive Andrew also.
By Andy Mason
From: Brownsville, CA
Jun 13, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

At this rate no beginner will want to onsite this route as just trying to onsite the comment section will become too much...
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jun 14, 2010

It's true Andrew. Haha.
By ryan dillon
From: Tucson, AZ.
Jun 14, 2010

This is hilarious. I'm pretty sure the bolt will get added. Hell I'll even put one in if i had access to a drill. Or you could call it a mixed route. I was there the day this was put up and we discussed putting it up in an adventure style. Everyone says the bolt is to high, but I don't see anyone of you saying the first bolt on Puppy Chow or Chilhulahula Power is to high. You might have perfect weather up there in Red Rocks but we have granite in So. AZ.

Jimbo,
When can we climb together so I can become a skilled bolter also? And when Eric and yourself argued over this, who is on what side?
By Jimbo
Jun 16, 2010

Ryan, that's easy to answer, I'm on the right side and EFR is on the wrong side.
By Andrew Guice
Jun 28, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

I cant help but be reminded of a quote out of EFRs book. If you bolt every route so any idiot can get up it, a lot of idiots will go climbing.
By 1Eric Rhicard
Jun 28, 2010

EFR is an idiot. That is pretty well known at this point. Look at the routes he has established in the last ten years. He gets up them. If that isn't proof I don't know what is. Careful what you type Andrew someone may quote it back to you in ten years. Ha Ha.
By Andrew Guice
Jun 29, 2010
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

Lol! Andrew is taking your wisdom to heart, and looks forward to bumping in to ya on the mountain again soon.
By Jennie Allred
From: Tucson, AZ
Jun 29, 2010
rating: 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a

This route was my first lead climb after one month of climbing, and the only complaint I had when I was finished was that I wasted the time gearing up when I could have just scrambled it. If it looks too run out then don't throw your kids on it. I'm 5 feet tall and the LAST thing on my mind once I finished the climb was the first bolt. I won't contest the experts here but it wasn't an expert that left the first comment! Sorry Adam. ;-) Good route for a beginner.
By ryan dillon
From: Tucson, AZ.
Aug 31, 2011

The fa's did not add a bolt and aren't planning on it. You will be fine to climb it without the bolt. There is no 25 foot runout. First bolt is about maybe 15' off the ground but if you have a problem with that you can easily traverse in higher and then clip the bolt. Good luck and have fun out there.
By Adam Block
From: Tucson, AZ
Feb 16, 2012
rating: 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a

Nick, the runout is on easy ground, I would say maybe 5.3 however it is slabby so if you have never climbed on anything slabby before it may feel out of your comfort zone. This is a very new climb and while the rock all feels very solid if a hold does break or you manage to fall at the first clip, you will tumble a solid 20+ feet before hitting the ground, I will post a picture so you can see how far the bolt is from the ground. Also, this route was intended to be face climbed from the bottom not started on the boulder, it is much less awkward if you face climb it from the bottom the way the FA intended.

It would be INCREDIBLY irresponsible for another climber to tell anybody they will "be fine" on any climb without knowing that persons limits well. As I look at all of the comments I would be the climber that climbs the lowest grade and even I have led 10s and top roped 11s when I was climbing a lot. The others are 11, 12 and even 13 climbers! That's a 7-10 grade difference between their abilities and this runout! If this climb is at your limit, do not listen to the advice of somebody that can climb 7+ grades higher as they would never attempt a 20+ foot runout at their limit.

Also, by definition you can't pluralize FA, Andrew Haag was the first ascent on this. He did a great job putting this route up and did it to contribute something to the area. Haag was actually totally fine with adding an additional bolt on the route which I felt would serve two purposes, firstly to protect the runout but also as a directional to keep people on the path Haag envisioned for the climb. Haag's belayer however had an issue with adding that bolt as he felt it should be a more adventurous climb and the bolt was never added to respect the belayers wishes and work he put into helping bolt it.
By Kerry Mc
From: Lawrence, KS
May 31, 2012
rating: 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b

Attempted as my 3rd lead but backed off at the 4th bolt due to reachiness that sketched me out. Worth noting if you are sending pint size folks up there. Followed up climbing it top rope- fun route.