I was at this meeting with Marcy. The only public mention of climbing was by one person (a non-climber) who suggested that the requests of the climbing community had been met. I raised my hand to respond, but was not called on in the sea of other people wanting to comment.

Fred from the QCC was there, and he spoke to several of the politicians who were there and reminded them that the requests of the climbing community have NOT yet been met. I myself had the opportunity to talk with the Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar and Congresswoman Ann Kirkpatrick and informed them of the same.

I spoke with Fred from the QCC and he did not sound optimistic at all. Folks, we are still far from a binding written agreement with RCC. If one is not reached, a huge amount of climbing in Queen Creek can be lost.

I asked Fred what we could do to help the cause of the QCC. He suggested that we raise awareness among climbers about the current state of the negotiations between the QCC and RCC, and write to our representatives to make it clear that the climbing community has not yet reached an agreement with RCC regarding the future of Queen Creek.

In the coming days I will provide contact information for these individuals. It is up to all of us to put the pressure on. If we don't, we risk the possibility of losing a giant amount of climbing.

Fred or any other members of the QCC feel free to chime in with any additions / corrections.

I was the woman who asked about the water used for this mining and about the disposal of it after, when the water is toxic. It is my understanding the water they are using now is being pipe-lined down to the farmers South West of there...That cannot be good!

I also brought up the issue of consequences from mining years later. Superior, Miami and Globe, etc all should know what that is. I understand they have a community of retired miners and I'm sure they all could share experiences of what they've seen and had to deal with as a result of their years mining.

I know what it is like to need a job and money. I am one of the unemployed for the moment. But I also know that too often 'we' humans act compulsively for the 'now' and not think things through to consider the consequences for the future. We need hold 'Big Company'(RCC, etc) responsible for their actions and be sure all environmental laws are follow.

WE NEED ANOTHER MEETING OF THE MINDS.

CLIMBERS: Please take a stand, get involved, ask questions...

Remember someone said: If we don't stand for something, we'll fall for anything.

Hope to see you at the crag

Linda

Here's one major player contact:

Department of the Interior
1849 C Street, N.W.
Washington DC 20240

Secretary of the Interior
Ken Salazar

U.S. Representative Ann Kirkpatrick (introduced the current legislation in the House):

Washington D.C. Office
1123 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-2315

From http://kirkpatrick.house.gov :

Want to talk with one of my staff members in person? Come visit us at our office hours at locations around Greater Arizona! Since our district is one of the largest in the country, we want to make sure that folks everywhere have access to my office and our constituent services and we are going to bring the office to you.

Gila County Office Hours:
Gila County Complex
1400 E. Ash St.
Globe, AZ 85501
Wednesdays, 10:00am-4:00pm

Navajo County Office Hours:
Show Low City Hall
550 N. 9th Place
Show Low, AZ 85901
First and Third Thursdays of the Month, 10:00am-4:00pm

Thanks to Geir and Linda for posting up and to all of you who helped with the activities at Oak Flat.

As most of you know, on Friday of last week, US Senator John McCain of Arizona, Secretary Ken Salazar of the Department of the Interior, and US House of Representative member Ann Kirkpatrick also from Arizona attended a Town Hall community meeting in Superior held specifically on the proposed Oak Flat land exchange issue and legislation (SB 409 and HR 2509).

The proposed swap is for the development of a mine that will create a massive underground cavern into which there is a high probability, if not certainty, that some of Oak Flat and the adjacent areas will eventually sink and collapse.

Prior to the public meeting, Secretary Salazar met with Native American leaders at Oak Flat privately to hear their concerns about the privatization and subsequent mining of what was once a central part of their homelands. The lands hold continuing value to them for use as a gathering and ceremonial area in accordance with their cultural and spiritual traditions and beliefs. The land is also an area of significant importance in terms of the history of engagement related to the influx of non-Native cultures over the last few centuries (The looming landmark “Apache Leap” cliffs derive their name from the story about the Native Americans who chose to jump to their deaths rather than surrendering, for instance)

Local concerned citizens and advocates for Oak Flat displayed their thoughts on signs and with voices at the Oak Flat Campground turnoff from US 60 just east of Superior, in various spots around the town, and outside and inside the meeting held at the local high school.

Along with these groups, climbers displayed their positive affection for the area and made their long time presence known by posting informational signs along the vehicle route taken by the Secretary, his staff, local media, and the general public. These large signs, along US 60 and the Magma Mine Road, pointed out the many different crags located in QC Canyon, in Oak Flat, and in the nearby adjacent areas that may be affected by the proposed land swap.

After the Nation to Nation meeting between the US Secretary of the Interior and the Native Americans, Senator McCain and Representative Kirkpatrick joined with him at the local high school auditorium and heard a wide variety of opinion offered by the audience, a large gathering of local community members and leaders, those involved with the mining efforts, and groups that don’t endorse the swap.

Highlights of the meeting included comments to the crowd from local climbers (before and during the Secretary's appearance) who spoke up about their concerns to remain present on the land for recreation purposes as they have been for many decades. (Thanks and kudos to them for speaking up!) Also, in a show of the wide support for the climbing in the area, a representative from a Colorado climbing coalition attended and spoke with many at the various gatherings and at the school. This reinforces the appeal the areas have for traveling climbers who come from both near and far.

Furthermore, The Queen Creek Coalition (QCC), the local area climber’s group working in conjunction with the Access Fund on the issue, delivered letters to both the Secretary’s staff and Senator McCain directly detailing a major current concern that the climber’s interests in the lands have yet to be satisfactorily addressed by the legislation or any private deals. Notwithstanding the current insufficiencies, the group has committed to continue to work with Congress, the Administration, and other interested parties proactively to overcome the obstacles.

On the flip side, an unfortunate, particular low-light of the forum was a comment made to the crowd from an elderly local resident who seemed to be held in high esteem by many. He stated his opinion about the Native American community’s interest in the land trade by relating that he had given up using his ancestral culture’s form of eating utensil, “chopsticks,” in favor of a fork a long time ago.

A Native American leader, who noted the insult directly back to the crowd in her comments, stated flatly that this sort of cultural bias is perhaps a source of the old adage that non-Native’s often speak with a “forked tongue.”

It seemed surreal given that we are in 2009 to bear witness to such overt insensitivity toward the Native American community. It was truly bizarre.

This, combined with Secretary Salazar’s assessment that if the parties don’t work together that years of litigation will probably follow, seemed to poignantly underscore the depth of complexity and underlying social stresses stirred up by the mining company’s proposals.

Perhaps it was his awareness of this that led him to ask the Native American elders onto the floor for recognition along with local dignitaries and government leaders to bring them together in the same space, adjacent to one another at the end of the meeting. The gesture seemed to reinforce his words that true compromise was yet to be had and that it wouldn’t unless all parties joined together for the benefit of all.

Related to this, while it’s obviously not the climbing community’s place to speak directly for Native Americans with their deep history, it must be acknowledged that many in the climbing community feel for their cause. Furthermore, and maybe more importantly, the Native American concerns affect things greatly for the climbing community due to our obvious overlapping desires to visit and be present on the same land that in some cases they hold sacred and house their religious spirits.

Many of the solutions for our community will be weighed in relation to these very powerful claims; specifically when it comes to our wish to seek part of the compensation for the vast amount of recreational opportunities lost by looking to the adjacent federal lands comprising Apache Leap, Devil’s Canyon, and other areas.

Going forward here’s what you can do to help:

-Let anybody and everybody know, especially those in Congress whether from Arizona or elsewhere, that climber’s interests have not yet been satisfactorily addressed and must be as an important stakeholder in the process. The QCC along with the Access Fund are taking the lead on this at this time, but your individual knowledge, ideas, and support is helpful and appreciated.

-Let others know that the surface of these lands contain an irreplaceable wealth of both history and public use going forward into the future and these surface assets contribute a great amount to the total “value,” along with the finite riches below. Anytime the “value” of Oak Flat is brought up, the discussion must include what lies at the surface as well as what is below.

-Let others know that the climbing community must be allowed to speak for itself, not merely referenced in congressional hearings and offices for the advantage of the commercial interests, their lobbyists, or those brought in or hired to do their bidding. At the recent Senate hearing on the land trade bill, the pro-land trade panel misspoke with respect to climber’s concerns and provided a skewed view of our satisfaction with the proceedings.

-There are many overlays of interested parties in this whole thing. Even in our own small community there have been so-called “deals” that seemed like sure things. The now defunct Tamo State Park “replacement” concept that was offered up in an original attempt to soothe the pain due to the anticipated loss of climbing in the Oak Flat area is probably the most memorable example. Under critical scrutiny and the sunshine of public viewing, this “sure thing” went by the wayside when the state and commercial interests couldn’t come to terms over who’d pay for such simple things as the necessary roads to get there. Similar to then, the current legislation and private agreements don’t go so far as to explicitly guarantee such seemingly necessary things for reasonable access.

So, it’s in our community’s best interest to view any legislation or private deals with a great deal of skepticism and to approach them with great care and analysis.

The latest “deal” that is being worked on by those of us in the QCC is another such attempt at a solution that might on the surface seem like a “sure thing” that provides a lot. But, even though I am personally involved with working on it, as things stand now I’m very wary of whether it will ever really deliver on what it appears to provide, whether in the legislation or in the private deal with the mining company.

My view is based not necessarily on what any one person or organization has done along the way, though there are many powerful and sometimes conflicting interests tugging and pulling at things, but mostly as a result of the unforeseen and somewhat unpredictable outcomes of solutions offered into a system and process with many hidden, seemingly random controlling variables. Like Secretary Salazar seems to realize, this deal is very complex and it won’t be successfully attended to without some real thought put into things.

For instance, here are some current “gotchas” resulting from the legislation and the private deal and some small analyses of the complicating (and often frustrating) circumstances involved:

->In the legislation (SB 409), Apache Leap is primarily set up for purposes other than climbing and there are no definite provisions that enable our activities or for access there: Google “Cave Rock Nevada Climbing” to see how that well known climbing crag on public forest lands was shut down due to overriding Native American cultural claims. Native American claims to Apache Leap are certainly valid and there’s no real argument with them on this, but relying on this area as a large part of the compensation for the climbing lost in and around Oak Flat is very risky; at least given the current wording of the legislation.

->The administration responded to the Senate Subcommittee’s questions just recently about replacement campground funding by saying that it will probably use the legislation’s $1M designated for such for other uses in adjacent forest lands NOT on a nearby Oak Flat replacement campground. So, evidently the public doesn’t get a replacement campground from the current legislation in the area even though it seems to say you do. The “side deal” doesn’t really assure the public of a suitable one either. Also, the administration goes on to further say that the money provided, while it might cover the cost of the site work needed for new camp sites, may not be sufficient for the roads and other resources needed. (This was a similar issue with Tamo . . . no road money, no real access to camping or climbing . . . )

->Continuing problematic liability issues remain related to much of the Oak Flat land if it goes into the hands of the mining company. People associated with the mining company’s interests reiterated this at the Town Hall meeting last Friday. This is a continuing, unnerving problem indeed since the “side deal” alone provides for access via license agreements onto some of the property that they will take private if the land trade goes through. If required by governmental regulations (MSHA) or other safety issues, this access might be suddenly lost. It’s a big unknown that has yet to be satisfactorily addressed and relying on the “side deal” and its license agreement is again very risky to say the least.

->The Forest Service seems to be uneasy about inheriting private land traded to it that has established climbing on it. At first it seems strange for them to be hesitant to take the land since many popular climbing areas are obviously on FS lands, but there may be some real liability and other issues related to getting an area specifically designated to be managed for climbing purposes. The current legislation needs to be more vigorously assessed and possibly reworked and remains very risky if left as it now reads.

The QCC is trying to address many of these and other issues and the community should be aware that these and other important details remain outstanding. Unfortunately, it’s premature to be proceeding with an “all clear” signal about “sure things” at this point in the game, just as it was with Tamo before. As things move forward from here, hopefully, the words and wisdom of Secretary Salazar will be heeded and true compromise will lead to a fair shake for all involved.

Thanks,

Fred

Wow, Fred...I just wanted to give you some kudos for writing in and reporting so detailed and accurately.

Thanks a lot Fred! Awesome work! Maybe you could see if the AMC could print your last post or something close to that in the next AMC bulletin. It would be great for as many local climbers to see that information as possible. Also, maybe the Access Fund could send something out to all AF Members like they do so often.

Thanks again!

I concur, Red!

Fred,
Thanks for the very thorough, clearly written update. Your hard work and insights here are a huge benefit to the climbing community!

For everyone else...

Below I have provided contact information for Senator John McCain. Contact information for Ken Salazar and Ann Kirkpatrick has been provided by Linda and Marcy above. I encourage anyone who has an interest in this area to write to all three of these individuals and share your concerns. Please remind them that the climbing community’s interests have yet to be satisfactorily addressed in the land swap legislation and private negotiations between the QCC and RCC. Make sure to reference the legislation (SB 409 and HR 2509).

Folks, we are at a critical point here. RCC is expending enormous time, energy, and money in hopes of getting the legislation passed this year. Without grassroots support from the individuals in the climbing community, the QCC's job becomes much harder. Please take time to write these representatives today, and carefully review Fred's suggestions for helping QCC protect our interests.

The Honorable John McCain
United States Senate
241 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-0303

McCain to Mayor Hing, " ______ "

More x-citing info & support - Letter from AZ Game & Fish

..."Furthermore, because exchange lands require long-term management,it is important that S. 409 identify long-term guaranteed funding for those properties."...

forwarded: The Commission will hold its next regularly scheduled meeting concerning this issue Sept. 12 at the Arizona Game and Fish Department headquarters at 5000 W. Carefree Highway in Phoenix (1.5 miles west of I-17)

The public can view the meeting any of three ways: (1) attend the meeting in person in Phoenix; (2) view it via video stream at the Game and Fish regional offices; or, (3) view it over the Web at www.azgfd.gov/commissioncam. Those wishing to submit “blue slips” to present oral comment during the meeting must do so either at the Phoenix meeting or at the regional Game and Fish offices

For a complete agenda, visit www.azgfd.gov/commission

Here are some videos from Steve Bodinet of TV3 here in the valley. Steve has been doing a lot of reporting on the Oak Flat issue from the beginning. These videos kind of update the view of things as of the visit of Secretary Salazar on August 21st.

Introduction to the issues....

http://www.azfamily.com/video/stevebodinet-index.html?nvid=3>>>>>

Report on the Town Hall meeting...

http://www.azfamily.com/video/stevebodinet-index.html?nvid=3>>>>>

Fred

Here's another address. Senator Jon Kyl introduced this legistation to the Senate with John McCain.

The Honorable Jon Kyl
2200 East Camelback, Suite 120
Phoenix, Arizona 85016-3455

Here is a sample text that may be helpful for those of you writing letters:

----------------------
I am writing in regards to the Southeast Arizona Land Exchange and Conservation Act of 2009 (SB409 & HR2509).

The Queen Creek Coalition (QCC) and Access Fund have been working to represent the interests of the climbing community that are affected by this bill. Their assessment at this time is that our interests have not been satisfactorily met in the legislation and negotiations with Resolution Copper Mining LLC (RCML).

For this reason, I am firmly against passage of the legislation until an agreement is reached that satisfies the climbing community's needs. Any assistance you could provide to ensure the continued presence of rock climbing in the region is greatly appreciated.
----------------------

Fred et al. - if you have any suggestions that may improve the above feel free to let me know.

Please people - take some time and write/call/fax/whatever. You can help!

done...
letters to McCain, Kyl, Slazar and Kirkpatrick


Also shout out to AMC....

climb on

Linda - you're awesome! Thanks!

Has anyone else written yet? If so post up so we can get an idea of how many people are writing. :)

My letters have also been mailed to McCain, Kyl, Slazar and Kirkpatrick.

sent mine on monday :)

I wrote one too and will inform members of the various MeetUp climbing groups so they can spread the word and write in too... its not hundreds ... but every vote counts and this is far too valuable! Thanks for all the hard work and energy - unfortunately it looks as though Nature Conservancy action will not affect without something more than the wildlife we are encountering.. I guess we need a Spotted Owl...

I did edit it however - i want to make sure that above and beyond Rock Climbers ... the voice of the land, the people and our future generations is heard. Even without rock climbing... the environmental impact this will have is irreversible...for now and for our next two generations - as well as what it will do when the toxins that are being pumped downstream to the farms gets into our crops and more importantly into our food source... Unbelievable!

Senate & House versions of this bill have been forwarded to Subcommittee agendas. If you've got time for more, here is an updated contact list for both... many thanks ~k

S.409 --> Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources --> Subcommittee on Public Lands and Forests

H.R.2509 --> House Committee on Natural Resources --> Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands

way to go!!!!!!!!!!!


Hi Shiloh


Linda

I wrote and printed a letter for all four of them yesterday. Still need to get to the store today to get envelopes and stamps. They will be in the mail today though.
I just want to give a little input on including other reasons outside of climbing such as the environment in your letters to achieve the best interest of the climbers. It has been suggested to me in talks I have had with QCC board members to focus primarily on the climbing. Depending on how in depth and what you state regarding topics such as the environment, it is possible to come off as being an extremist. Climbers do not want to be confused with extremists at all because then our voice is less heard.
Just so you know, I did mentions the long term environmental impact concerns in my letters. But, it was a real small and direct comment. I really tried to stay on the topic of "Meeting the Climbers Needs".
If you feel more strongly about the environmental impacts of the land, my suggestion would be to write a letter to them just with the environment as your topic and a separate letter to all of them regarding climbers needs being met. It is in the best interest of the climbing community to not intermix the two topics too much.
Thanks!

So, are we up to like four people writing letters now? Something like that?
It is a quick and easy task for your climbing future! If nothing else you can copy and past the sample letter that Geir Hundal posted. Even all the names and addresses are posted on the thread for your convenience.(all on the second page at that) Thanks to all with initiative!

Thanks to all who've written so far!!!

I sent an email to my climbing contacts with links to the QCC website and this thread. Some of them are not active users of MP, but have responded and will write letters.

On a different note - It's easy to say "yeah, I'll write some letters" and then not follow through. when I began climbing ~2005-ish, I recall hearing about the proposed land swap (yup, it's been going on that long in some form or another). There were petitions at the local gyms and climbing shops in opposition of the legislation.

Fred, or other QCC members, would there be any benefit to starting a petition against the legislation until an agreement is reached between QCC and RC? Just a thought.

Marcy