Can anyone tell me what the current access situation is for the Overlook? The MP page lists a climbing restriction for routes past the Red Wagon area. Is this current?

Also, is there a topo available, so I can figure out to which routes the restriction applies?

What's the weather like there this time of year? Should I expect afternoon storms over the 4th of July weekend?

Thanks in advance for any info. Climb happy!

Brigette

Park across the street to avoid the parking lot hassles.
If you come down the East end walk down, the trail pretty much dead ends at Red Wagon (sigh.) If you want to experience the Overlook in it's more primordial ways, then continue on past Red Wagon. You'll now understand the meaning of the climb, Haltogota.

the overlook should be renamed to "the oven" for the summer climbing season.

Thanks Tradster, Paul. Googling now...

Jon: There's a comment in there somewhere about getting baked, but I'm gonna let it go.

Yes that is current and we don't expect to get it back because the Forest Service considered climbers a nuisance and danger to tourons if they don't keep them in check (I believe the argument was that a touron could fall over the cliff trying to lean over to see someone climbing over near the canyon view end of things).

This isn't really that much of a restriction. There are tons of other great routes to climb, all the way from Griffo on the way right end, down to the Trinity Cracks and Red Wagon on the left. Typically, you would rap in, climb out (similar to the Forks), but you can also hike down on the trail and climb out.

Weather...warm, sunny, with the routes going into shade around 1:30 or 2pm. Afternoon storms... Flagstaff... yes, the weather service is predicting isolated t-storms for this weekend.

Topo... Marty K's topo is good.
Also copies of Tim Toula's Cheap Way to Fly guide around.

Climb safe!

"Haltogota" - is like bad breath or something?

Thanks, Greg.

Maybe the FS should build a special climber-viewing platform, complete with 8' chain link, like they have a the mines to prevent idiots from falling in...

I'll have the dogs with me, so rapping in and climbing out aren't the best option. I'd imagine we can walk out the same way we walked in, yeah?

Sounds like the storms'll be hitting right about the time the rock is shady enough to climb. In case that's the case, any beta on friendly local watering holes?

Jon: You're so high you're gonna need two ropes to get back down. Hee hee.

Greg essentially has the story correct on the Overlook access issue. Way back in 1993 the Coconino County Sheriff raised concerns over the potential rescue of tourists who could fall off the cliff at the overlook while trying to watch the rock climbers. The FS took the recommendation and closed a large portion of the cliff. While many of the classics remain legal to climb a number of excellent routes are now off limits.

Through many meetings with both the Peaks and Sedona FS folks the NACC and the Access Fund were able to broker a deal that could reopen the area to climbing. However, as with all things, there are several hang-ups.

1. The cliff top in the legal climbing area is hammered. The cliff top in the closed area has had fifteen years to heal and is pristine. The FS wanted to make sure that the cliff top remains restored. The only way to do this of course was to make the area near the tourists lead only with a limited number of fixed anchors. The FS does not want to have anything to do with the placing, maintenance, and liability involved with these anchors. No one else really does either, so this is an issue that we are trying to resolve.

2. The FS wants a new access trail to be constructed to access both the open and closed areas. This will be quite expensive and the FS does not have the money to put into this project. We are still exploring how we could potentially finance the trail building.

3. The Overlook sits right on the boarder of the Peaks Ranger District and the Sedona Ranger Distric. Any management plan has to be approved by both districts. In other words, double red tape to cut through.

4. The locals who have been in dialoge with the FS for 15 years now regarding the project are pretty burned out. We really need a few folks who are willing to pick up the torch and finish the project.

Any input that ya'll have on this or any other project in N. AZ will accepted with open arms.

Thanks,

Will Cobb
Access Fund Regional Coordinator
Northern Arizona

P.S. The walk down will be a good way to get dogs and gear to the bottom, but I would still consider taking a dedicated rap line to fix. As far as watering holes go, Beaver Street Brewery and Flag Brewery (in Flagstaff) are excellent. Jackson's Bar/Grill on 89a has recently reopened, but is a little more high end. Best burger in Flagstaff is the new Diablo Burger.

You may find some free camping on Forest Service Road 237, which is on the east side of 89A about a mile or so north of The Overlook proper. When are you going up there?

I was thinking, be careful about leaving any gear up top, as it can be easily stolen. I know of some one who left a pack at the top and it was ripped off. I may be up that way this weekend. Any ways, have fun and be safe.

Hey Bridgette

We were just up there on Saturday.. hot as Hades but fun as hell...

the trail is managable with the pups ... its along the right side of the wall.. Nice routes, good clean climbing... Marty's topo is good - you can find it at PRG...

Have Fun!!!

If you take the trail down be aware of the big dead tree ready to fall anytime.

Shiloh: I've heard that climbing there between about 1 pm and 8 pm is the only way to go. Evidently, that dark rock holds way too much heat from the morning sun.

Has Becka had her baby yet? We're gonna need pics...

Ryan: Thanks for the heads up. We'll be careful.

Sorry if this has already been posted, but even in the morning there's pockets of shade to be found, both for resting in between climbs and actual corners that stay in the shade for part of the morning (not too many of those though and can't remember exactly which and how hard the climbs are).

Even in the sun, you could probably climb from 8 AM to 10 AM with a bearable level of discomfort. There's a point (around 10:30 or 11 IIRC) where the rock actually becomes pretty hot to the touch and things begin to seriously suck..

There's a thread on Supertopo right now about Flagstaff that lists some restaurants and watering holes..

Re: the camping, the camping that everybody & the guidebooks mention (about a mile up from the Overlook and on the west side of the 89) sucks..It's on a steep dirt road and crowded with tons of other campers..There's better camping (flatter & less crowded) 2 or 3 miles further north on the east side of the road, just look for the gates to open to get in..