Eric,

No, I'm not suggesting that Scott can't explain himself.

By the way, yes, Scott did mention some of that stuff you listed. I'm not here to defend Scott's actions.

I've spent the last few days moving to Phoenix, so I haven't spent much time on the computer. I'm in Chicago right now visiting my brother and his wife for the next 8 days. I am heading off on a camping trip for a few days tomorrow with my brother, so I will be away from the computer. I am happy to get more in depth with this when I get back to Phoenix (where I am living for a few months). I would gladly chat about this on the phone or even over a cold beer. I'll post up when I get back.

Dan

More conflict? I think someone missed out on the "penis come out drink beer get Dudley excited relieve tension smoke cigarette". Daryl, get your huge penis ready for more action.

Eric,

Way to go calling it like it is. And I think you're right, it's important for the folks who've been posting here to weigh in on your questions!

I'm out in the wilderness for a few days. Looking forward to seeing the responses.

Nice dodge to the questions Daryl. But it would be nice if you guys would answer the questions because in the end it isn't about me and Scott Ayers. In the end it is about what is acceptable practice in our climbing community. I am not asking you guys to dislike Scott, I am asking you and everyone else to condemn his actions. As I said before if you don't and you continue to put up routes in the stronghold it will happen to you. It took some other issues between Geir and Scott for Geir to see that the public Scott and the Scott that PM's everyone, or sneaks up to End Pinnacle, and is afraid to post is all about. So I just want answers to basic questions of what you guys think is acceptable. But if you would rather say it to me in person where Scott will not see it in writing then you will make a great politician.

Just got back from the Sierras... can we just go back to talking about weiners?

I'm back early. Injuries suck.

Eric,

I'm not sure how you perceived my post as saying that Scott can't explain himself on mountainproject. I said he won't, not can't. Again, if you guys want him to explain himself, he would show up in a public meeting. I still don't understand why you don't have any interest in this.

You might ask me, why won't Scott explain himself on here? Well, it's pretty simple. People tend to be far more rational in person than behind a computer screen. Think of it like this Eric, if these threads contained things like: "Eric is spineless, Eric needs counseling, Eric is the Ken Nichols of the west, I hate Eric, I encourage everyone to chop every one of Eric's routes," you would think it is completely ridiculous, right? You are a popular guy on mountainproject. Scott is not.

I have trouble buying this whole thing is about the communinity, not the squabble between Scott and Eric because: YOU AREN'T CALLING OUT RICKD. If you guys really care about the community, why aren't you calling this out? Don't you think Rick is being extremely antagonistic? Wouldn't chopping all of Scott's routes be terrible for the community?

Furtheremore, Eric, what about your threats on the previous thread about raining on the sheepshead? Those are about chopping Scott's routes in retaliation to Scott messing with any of your routes (or variations in this instance), right? Is it justified to chop Scott's routes because he changed your bolt hangers? Or even if he had chopped your routes, is it acceptable to chop his? Is this really about the community?

Have you done anything to antagonize Scott? Yes, Scott has done some foolish things. He has told me he regrets some things he did. Scott, for example, told me he regrets messing with Ray Ringle's routes on the Beaver Wall. At that time, did you have the wisdom to know rap-bolting would be a generally acceptable way to bolt routes? From how he described it, he and Ringle are able to laugh about it now because Scott realizes he was being foolish then. Eric, have you done anything regrettable? Do you have a perfect record? As some biblical text says, (I'm not a religious dude, so I don't really know) let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Geir, if this is about the community, why aren't you calling out Rickd? Why aren't you calling out Eric's threats to chop Scott's routes? You said you are against chopping anyone's bolts ("a position which actually benefits Scott") but it seems you are only concerned with Scott's actions.

While Scott switching the hangers isn't be best way to handle the beef with Eric, do the hangers need "repair?" Are the hangers Scott put up unsafe or inferior in any way? According to Eric's guidebook, we should be using camoflauge bolts whenever possible.

Again, I'm not here to defend Scott's actions. All I'm saying is that the whole "for the community" argument is a thin veil for the anti-Scott vendetta.

Just answer the questions.

I understand you say you are opposed to chopping anyone's bolts. Does that not present some conflict with Rick's call to chop all of Scott's routes, or Eric's threat to chop Scott's routes on the sheepshead? Considering you put a lot of time and effort into your sheepshead and Troll Wall topos, doesn't this bother you?

Let me present this parallel: if someone said, we should hack into Geir's website and destroy his topos, would you hope someone would speak out against this? Especially if a member of the community had publicly said they are against hacking into websites and destroying topos? Or would you do nothing until your topos were gone? (I am sure your topos are backed up on your computer, but you get the idea, right?).

I'm not trying to restrict Rick's right to freedom of speech, I'm encouraging you to back your words by using the same freedom of speech to discourage routes from being chopped.

geir, dan: there seems to be a rift developing between the two of you in this thread, which seems very unfortunate to me because i had always thought you guys were friends--or if not friends, friendly acquaintances. i have climbed with and hung out with both of you guys at the same time, and it always seemed like you were friends. maybe i was wrong, i don't know, but i personally would be very sad if the two of you stopped speaking to each other or each ended up with reservations about the other because of this. we are clearly getting no where. let's not kill another friendship because of this.