Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
ARC training questions
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 2.  <<First   <Prev   1  2
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Dec 10, 2012
Sure, I can belay

Brendan N. (grayhghost) wrote:
30 minutes is where you see forearm adaptation / capillarization. It has little to do with the length of your goal routes. Talking with Douglas recently, it seems that 20 minutes produces the same results as longer sets so we have been doing 20 minutes more frequently.


Brendan, do you know if DH still recommends 5 days of ARC/week?

FWIW, I'm also wondering where the evidence is for capilarization.

I don't know if ARCing will do me any good, but it's different from what I've done before, so worth a try. I have noticed when I train the same way, I get the same results.


FLAG
By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Dec 10, 2012

Mark E Dixon wrote:
Brendan, do you know if DH still recommends 5 days of ARC/week?

It depends on what phase we are in. 10 x 20min. per week during base-building phase. Less during other phases.
It also depends on how hard we can ARC. More ARCing if we are strong, less if we are fit.


FLAG
By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Dec 11, 2012
Sure, I can belay

Brendan N. (grayhghost) wrote:
It depends on what phase we are in. 10 x 20min. per week during base-building phase. Less during other phases. It also depends on how hard we can ARC. More ARCing if we are strong, less if we are fit.


Thanks for the reply!

I don't see 10 sessions a week as excessive, but I'm an outlier, as I'll still climb every day of the week if I can, probably too often for optimal progress, to be honest.

How many weeks do you do the base phase?

I also don't get your last statement- do you mean more ARC if you are strong/fit or less ARC if you are strong/fit? And would that mean more than 10 weekly sessions, or fewer or more weeks total?

Mark


FLAG
By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Dec 11, 2012

Mark E Dixon wrote:
How many weeks do you do the base phase?

Until our aerobic threshold is at the grade we need for our goal route. This changes as the goal route changes.

Mark E Dixon wrote:
I also don't get your last statement- do you mean more ARC if you are strong/fit or less ARC if you are strong/fit? And would that mean more than 10 weekly sessions, or fewer or more weeks total? Mark

10 sessions per week is the max we do.
Strong and fit are different ends of a spectrum in my lexicon. Strong is when I can crush a boulder problem, but get pumped out on routes. Fit is when I can climb forever, but can't boulder hard (for me).


FLAG
By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Dec 11, 2012

I'm trying ARC now for the first time.

I have access to a good-sized wall and can add whatever holds I like to it. So far I can do something like 10 or 12 minutes without stopping, which is about double what I could do two weeks ago. Should I make the route I'm working even easier (it's on panels ranging from probably 95-110 degrees, difficulty's probably about 5.6 or 5.7, but there are no rests), or should I just keep plugging at the current level until the time improves? In other words, should I keep making it easier until I can do 20-30 minutes on it, or just work with what I have?

My goals, if that makes a difference, are long (Grade IV-V), fairly easy (10b or less) trad routes.

Cheers,
David


FLAG
By JCM
From Golden, CO
Dec 11, 2012

David Horgan wrote:
Should I make the route I'm working even easier (it's on panels ranging from probably 95-110 degrees, difficulty's probably about 5.6 or 5.7, but there are no rests), or should I just keep plugging at the current level until the time improves? In other words, should I keep making it easier until I can do 20-30 minutes on it, or just work with what I have?


A good solution to this issue is to work more rests into your Arc routine. Climb continuously for 10 minutes or so. Once you start getting a bit too pumped, pause for a little while (1-2 minutes?) at a jug and shake out until you are suficiently recovered to continue climbing. With decent rest stances, you should be able to keep the pump at a reasonable level and stay on the wall more or less indefinately. This allows you to do a longer set, and also does a good job of mimicking the stop-go rythmn of climbing. This also has the added benefit of including some skills training. Learning how to rest and recover fully while hanging on jugs on steep ground is an essential skill that a lot of people climbing trad at the 5.10 level haven't fully worked out yet. Once you get used to being able to rest with weight still on your arms, vertical 5.10 trad pitches that previously seemed pumpy won't seem that way anymore, once you realize that you can shake out and rest anywhere.

David Horgan wrote:
My goals, if that makes a difference, are long (Grade IV-V), fairly easy (10b or less) trad routes.


This is very relevant to the question. It is silly when someone posts a training question without saying what type/style/level of route they are training for.


FLAG
By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Dec 11, 2012

Jon Moen wrote:
A good solution to this issue is to work more rests into your Arc routine. Climb continuously for 10 minutes or so. Once you start getting a bit too pumped, pause for a little while (1-2 minutes?) at a jug and shake out until you are suficiently recovered to continue climbing. With decent rest stances, you should be able to keep the pump at a reasonable level and stay on the wall more or less indefinately. This allows you to do a longer set, and also does a good job of mimicking the stop-go rythmn of climbing. This also has the added benefit of including some skills training. Learning how to rest and recover fully while hanging on jugs on steep ground is an essential skill that a lot of people climbing trad at the 5.10 level haven't fully worked out yet. Once you get used to being able to rest with weight still on your arms, vertical 5.10 trad pitches that previously seemed pumpy won't seem that way anymore, once you realize that you can shake out and rest anywhere. This is very relevant to the question. It is silly when someone posts a training question without saying what type/style/level of route they are training for.


Thanks Jon, I'll give that a go.

I remember reading in some other thread here on periodization someone suggesting that for the kind of climbs I'm talking about (2000 feet of 5.9 instead of 100 feet of 5.12), ARC might be the major focus of my winter training, as opposed to trying to move into the more intense hard bouldering/fingerboarding stuff. Does that seem right to you?


FLAG
By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Dec 19, 2012
Sure, I can belay

When you guys ARC on routes, do you down climb the same routes you climb up? Or down climb easier routes? If the latter, how do you figure out your ARC 'level'?

Also, FWIW, I was trying to look up the studies behind capillarization. One of the articles showed NO effect at workloads of 45% VO2 max, it needed to be 70-80%. Not sure I fully understood this though, as they seemed to be referring to the VO2max of the tested muscle groups (mostly legs.) Aerlii?


FLAG
By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Dec 20, 2012
OMG, I winz!!!

I can ARC up and down the same routes until I get really close to my onsight level. Then I'll go up a harder route and down a bit easier one or add jugs/big feet. Some days I try to keep the level consistent and others I cycle up and down easier and harder routes.

Since my focus at the moment is boulders I haven't been doing much ARC except for warm up/cool down stuff. When I first started ARCing it was really a process to figure out just how hard I could go and still stay on the wall for 30 or 45 minutes. Setting a circuit on my homewall helped with that, motivation and also learning how to climb faster but still efficiently.

Once the daylight comes back a bit I'll try another ARC cycle and see how long it takes to come back to my previous cycle best on the circuit.


FLAG
By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Dec 20, 2012
OMG, I winz!!!

David Horgan wrote:
kind of climbs I'm talking about (2000 feet of 5.9 instead of 100 feet of 5.12), ARC might be the major focus of my winter training, as opposed to trying to move into the more intense hard bouldering/fingerboarding stuff. Does that seem right to you?


I was really impressed with the confidence gains I saw in my long route trad climbing after ARCing. I never worried about getting pumped and was confident enough to climb stance to stance and place good gear instead of effing around on bad stances to sew up climbs. Maybe that's just me but I appreciated it.


FLAG
By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Dec 20, 2012

Chris Plesko wrote:
I was really impressed with the confidence gains I saw in my long route trad climbing after ARCing. I never worried about getting pumped and was confident enough to climb stance to stance and place good gear instead of effing around on bad stances to sew up climbs. Maybe that's just me but I appreciated it.


That sounds like exactly the result I'm looking for...will keep it up! Now about 2-3 3weeks into it, seeing some gains, but those are coming pretty slowly...hopefully that's just an indication of how much more benefit I still have to gain from the technique!


FLAG
By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Dec 21, 2012

Mark E Dixon wrote:
When you guys ARC on routes, do you down climb the same routes you climb up? Or down climb easier routes? If the latter, how do you figure out your ARC 'level'?

We down climb on any holds and state our level as what we up climb.


FLAG
By JLP
From The Internet
Dec 21, 2012

Brendan N. (grayhghost) wrote:
We down climb on any holds and state our level as what we up climb.

I've been wondering about this. "We" as in this is what Hunter really means in SCC for your 30-40 minute continuous climbing level?

Downclimbing any holds is easier than letting an autobelay lower you and jumping back on, IMO. The autobelay is about a ~6 second rest, ~10 to chalk up, shake and get back at it. If you are going up a 12-something and down a 9 or whatever, it would seem to average somewhere in the 11's - your 30-40 minute continuous climbing level is really somewhere in the 11's.

In the back of the book, lapping (ARCing) 11's is suggested to correlate to ~13 RP (11+2), which makes more sense to me than expecting 12+2 = ~14 RP for basically the same effort.


FLAG
By Mark E Dixon
From Sprezzatura, Someday
Jan 6, 2013
Sure, I can belay

Any comments on ARCing on a treadwall? I've been doing 20 minute sets at a speed that allows minimal rests and an angle that makes me work but that I can maintain for the entire duration. Keeps my heart rate at about 160, which is about AT threshold level for me, I believe. (Max climbing HR of about 194, so just over 80% Max HR)
Doesn't allow practicing resting, but does encourage continuous climbing.
It also allows 'quiet eye' practice, which I am finding useful.


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 2.  <<First   <Prev   1  2