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Anyone used ascenders on twins?
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Aug 1, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
I know: I'm gonna die.

Now that we're past that, have you? I'm getting on an alpine route this weekend that I may/may not be able to climb. We're hoping to use twins because two ropes are best for the descent and twins are obviously the lightest choice.

My Petzl ascenders are rated down to 8 mil and our ropes are 7.5 mil. My OG Grigri is rated down to 10 mil, but I've certainly used a rope as small as 9.2 mil without any problems. But comparing a Grigri to an ascender is kinda like comparing apples and oranges.

The ascenders and ropes and in two different cities so it seems easier to post here than to actually test the pieces of gear together.

I'd be psyched to hear from anyone that has experience using Petzl ascenders with a 7.5 mil rope.

Thanks!
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
Aug 1, 2012
Rough
I've used petzl jugs on 8mil and it was fine. Lotsa rope strech means lots more wear on your sheath, though. This alpine route you may not be able to climb may ruin your rope Stiles
From the Mountains
Joined May 21, 2003
790 points
Aug 1, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
Stiles wrote:
This alpine route you may not be able to climb may ruin your rope


Correction: My buddy's rope. Haha.
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
Aug 1, 2012
If you don't load it over an edge, it might be ok, but that's hard to avoid on alpine routes.

Importantly, if you attempt to ascend one rope and are belayed on the second rope, the worst thing that can happen isn't too terrible. You should be able to transition from being belayed on both to ascending one and belayed on the other without switching anything up, so long as the auto-block device on the anchor will allow you to pull rope through with one rope under tension. A plaquette will allow this, I believe, but not sure about ATC Guide or Reverso...

Check out the video at the bottom of this page and see how easily a rope will shred over an edge:

petzl.com/en/outdoor/product-e...
CWood
From SLC, UT
Joined Oct 18, 2009
48 points
Aug 1, 2012
Thunderbolt Peak in the Palisades
If you end up going and using your ascenders; you can always put prusiks above your ascenders which mind themselves as you push up and if the ascenders slipped the prusiks would catch you. This adds more gear and time but would be a safe option. randy88fj62
Joined May 28, 2010
67 points
Aug 1, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Or simply skip the ascenders, go light weight and prusik. Princess Mia
From Vail
Joined May 22, 2006
422 points
Administrator
Aug 1, 2012
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.
jugging a 7.5 .... (shudder).....

man, i think you should just eat your wheaties and free/dog/frenchfree/whatever. jugging a 7.5 would suck. you would need to be REALLY careful about keeping it away from edges, etc. maybe jug one, and have the belayer keep you snug on the other one.
slim
Joined Dec 1, 2004
2,053 points
Aug 1, 2012
Are there whole pitches you might not be able to climb? Usually an extra-tight belay and a little pulling on gear will get you up something a couple letter grades harder than you can usually climb.

I'd rather have a lightweight aider and daisy than an ascender if I think a route might be too much for me.

Otherwise, I'd bring your 9.2 and one 7.5 if you don't have a lighter pull strand. Like the others mentioned, jugging on a rope over any kind of edge shreds it in no time. It gets worse on thin ropes, and it gets worse on stretchy ropes. A 7.5mm is about the thinnest, stretchiest rope you can get. I doubt you could jug 60m of it without a major core shot, even over typical gentle edges.
Auto-X Fil
From NEPA and Upper Jay, NY
Joined Aug 1, 2010
46 points
Aug 1, 2012
Princess Mia wrote:
Or simply skip the ascenders, go light weight and prusik.


That's still going to shred the rope.
Auto-X Fil
From NEPA and Upper Jay, NY
Joined Aug 1, 2010
46 points
Aug 1, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
Auto-X Fil wrote:
Are there whole pitches you might not be able to climb?


No, just short sections I reckon.
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points
Carry some extra cams and just pull through... Done that too many times. Way easier. If you have to you can sometimes batman the rope or prussic if you are really screwed. But for the most part just pull on gear.
Aug 1, 2012
Plumbers Crack
You could also use the ropes together (like twins) and ascend with prusiks around both ropes together at once. Personally I wouldn't want to bounce around on one 1/2 rope. A Petzl Shunt might work better than ascends/prusik in this case too, but those are only rated for ropes down to 8mm. Just a few thoughts I had Matt Kuehl
From red rock
Joined Nov 29, 2010
1,384 points
Aug 1, 2012
First morning at Indian Creek!!!
+1 for french free.

If you can communicate with your belayer, you can yard on 1 strand while the other belayed strand captures your progress.

J
J Antin
From Golden, CO
Joined May 13, 2009
1,031 points
Aug 1, 2012
Yeah the weight saving of twins plus bringing ascenders doesn't make any sense. Go climb something you can climb! Or bring cams for a few moves of aid FreeRangeHuman
From safari van
Joined Feb 24, 2012
0 points
Aug 1, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Maybe the route is over your head......

Yeah I wouldn't prusik either on skinny ropes....... unless it is an emergency......

I agree with french free.......
Princess Mia
From Vail
Joined May 22, 2006
422 points
Aug 1, 2012
Me on top of Chianti Spire
This forum is like a fascinating zoo for bad ideas.

Improv-aiding through tough cruxes on lead is one thing, it's another to climb a route you can't toprope hangdog your way up. So I'd first encourage you to climb something easier, if you're that worried about it.

If you really want to do it anyway, admit to yourself that you might resort to full-blown aid, and bring a thicker rope.
Eric Fjellanger
Joined May 8, 2008
774 points
Aug 1, 2012
Eric Fjellanger wrote:
This forum is like a fascinating zoo for bad ideas.


plus a million
Buff Johnson
Joined Dec 19, 2005
1,499 points
Aug 1, 2012
Marc H wrote:
I'd be psyched to hear from anyone that has experience using Petzl ascenders with a 7.5 mil rope. Thanks!


Its absolute shit, bring a bigger rope or some cord and rig a bachmann plus texas prussik setup. Personally, jugging a rope that size any way sucks.

Just bring a bigger rope.
Merlin
From Grand Junction
Joined Mar 13, 2006
50 points
Aug 1, 2012
i really enjoyed this drive to the tetons... can't...
NO. Refer to Mark Twight's book Extreme Alpinism on the subject for a more thorough answer and suggestions for alternative rope systems. dirtbag
From Bellingham, WA
Joined Feb 4, 2007
143 points
Aug 1, 2012
Chillin' at City of Rocks
Marc H......

As you have climbed the Pacific Ocean Wall you should maybe be a bit more knowledgable in this arena? No? Why jug when you clearly have solid aid skills? Unless you are attempting something way rad.......and then why such skinny ropes....... just trying to sort it out......

What are you going to climb?????????
Princess Mia
From Vail
Joined May 22, 2006
422 points
Aug 1, 2012
AntinJ wrote:
+1 for french free. If you can communicate with your belayer, you can yard on 1 strand while the other belayed strand captures your progress. J
That's more or less what I was thinking, but with an ascender or other rope grab instead of hands-on-rope.

A loaded 7.5 looks scary skinny though...
CWood
From SLC, UT
Joined Oct 18, 2009
48 points
Aug 1, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Definitely French free it or aid. No need to jug anything. Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,496 points
Aug 1, 2012
Marc H wrote:
I know: I'm gonna die. Now that we're past that, have you? I'm getting on an alpine route this weekend that I may/may not be able to climb. We're hoping to use twins because two ropes are best for the descent and twins are obviously the lightest choice. My Petzl ascenders are rated down to 8 mil and our ropes are 7.5 mil. My OG Grigri is rated down to 10 mil, but I've certainly used a rope as small as 9.2 mil without any problems. But comparing a Grigri to an ascender is kinda like comparing apples and oranges. The ascenders and ropes and in two different cities so it seems easier to post here than to actually test the pieces of gear together. I'd be psyched to hear from anyone that has experience using Petzl ascenders with a 7.5 mil rope. Thanks!


Awesome Troll Marc!

A master at work.
Leeroy
Joined Feb 4, 2012
3 points
Aug 1, 2012
This is a novel auto blocking belay device.  I thi...
I follow on alpine way above my head all the time. I use tiblocs on 7mm cord, totally solid. Rick Blair
From Denver
Joined Oct 16, 2007
270 points
Aug 1, 2012
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Pea...
Leeroy wrote:
Awesome Troll Marc! A master at work.


Duh-oh!

Well played, sir. Well played.
Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,496 points
Aug 1, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stile...
The funny (or scary?) thing is that this isn't a troll. Trolling isn't my game; I think it's pretty lame. I was really considering doing this. LOL The fact that none of y'all have jugged a 7.5 speaks volumes.

We're getting on Pervertical, Mia. I'm not in the greatest shape right now, but I'm sure I can climb at least 95% of it.

I don't know for sure what we'll do yet, but I imagine I'll just suck it up and pull through any sections I can't free quickly.

A Tibloc (or maybe even a Ropeman) is a great, lightweight idea as a backup. Thanks Rick!

Flame on!
Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Joined May 10, 2007
280 points


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