Anyone use FRS radios?

I'm going to be in Denali NP this summer, and I was thinking of using my REI 20% off to get these.

My two biggest concerns are durability and range. Obviously these fit the bill, but they're pricey. Are people aware of any other models that would be worthwhile to consider?

I have a radio set I use on multi pitch. I wasn't too sure about using them and just going with rope tugs...but my girlfriend was a little nervous about multipitch and her being able to talk with me makes her a lot more comfortable which makes me more at ease .

I actually picked up some at walmart since I knew they would get beat up and probably broken at some point.

To exploit the true range of the FRS radio I think you need to buy a license from the FCC...I think that is 50+ ?

When you buy many FRS\GMRS radios now they come with both services on them right out of the box. The channels are combined on the radio so if you use the correct channel you will get the higher power of GMRS. See channel chart link below.

FRS\GMRS Channels

More info can be found at the following links.

GMRS info
FRS info

Of course there is a license requirement on the GMRS side so make sure you don't key up on that channel until the FCC says it's OK for you to do so.

mfer wrote:When you buy many FRS\GMRS radios now they come with both services on them right out of the box. The channels are combined on the radio so if you use the correct channel you will get the higher power of GMRS. See channel chart link below. FRS\GMRS Channels More info can be found at the following links. GMRS info FRS info Of course there is a license requirement on the GMRS side so make sure you don't key up on that channel until the FCC says it's OK for you to do so.

That's good to know. Thanks.

I imagine the "up to X miles" reported on the radio probably is the GMRS range rather than the FRS range. Still, useful in an emergency.

they're not too bad; we use them here in Muir Valley all the time for emergency and rescue needs. Not sure if the range is more than a couple miles though,, and big ridges or mountains in the way could block the signal.

GMRS... Right now I have limited time, and I could say a LOT about radio...

Lots of things not understood by people using radios. You guys don't understand FRS/GMRS, and you don't know whats up. I'm not bitching, just stating what is obvious to me.

Lots of things changing right now, but let me just put a few things out there. Some things I say may not be 100% correct (Change is the only constant), but I will love listening to others who KNOW if I am wrong.

I am an Amateur Radio operator, Extra Class. Federal licensed, for just over ten years, and I got a LOT of frequency/radio privleges you don't as a result. I buy EXPENSIVE big radios and have a power limit measured in hundreds of watts, according ... (don't ask). ((Not the handhelds, most handhelds are about 5 watt max, although ICOM has a 7.5 watt series with magnesium cases for heat dissapation... Most FRS radios have been a half watt to two watts on the GMRS channels... but everybody makes a different radio, and specs vary widely now.))

GMRS radios in the full fledged "GMRS system" is not usually what you get in a FRS/GMRS radio. Full blown GMRS is actually a repeater system, and uses 23 channels, and usually in pairs with one frequency being used as a transmit channel to a repeater, then another channel from the repeater is used as the recieve channel. The radios dedicated to the service are designed to be used this way, in what is called "duplex communications". Your usual radios will likely only have like 5 GMRS channels, and they will NOT work as duplex, only as "simplex", (talk one at a time sharing the same channel). Your typical FRS/GMRS radio will also not have a removable/changable antenna, and that is what will limit your distance more than anything, because you will have a crappy tiny antenna built into the radio. Without a better antenna (which is unavailable and illegal to use to boot...) you ain't going to get no 25 miles, typically, unless you are in a DAMN lonely area, on top of a peak with line of sight potential,even at night; you will almost never get that kind of range, a few miles is what is practical.

DON'T USE THE PRIVACY CODES, THEY DON"T WORK LIKE YOU THINK AND WILL PREVENT YOU FROM HEARING OTHERS WHO CAN HEAR YOU. Privacy codes refuse a signal not prefixed with the exact (inaudible) correct code and that means your radio won't let you listen to others who are not using YOUR code, without the code. Guys can be yelling at your call for help, and you won't hear a word!

The actual GMRS system is usually NOT available to you, your few channels will all be on the repeater output frequencies so you can't interfere with licensed services on those frequencies. You will not be part of that system, but that doesn't matter, your radios won't/can't usually transmit CTCSS tones to control it anyway. But you CAN transmit simplex, and that will suffice. (Can you say "OVER"?) The full GMRS system is more like a private party-line telephone system for mobile businessmen and contractors, etc... the providers often charge money from subscribers, how else can they pay for the repeaters?

FCC seems to be trying to make the GMRS service a non-licensed service, but has not yet. However, NOBODY will bust you for using the FRS/GMRS radio you are handed if you don't try and use a repeater. You just will not be able to create much of a problem for them on the output frequency. Too little power/raqnge. The design is to keep you out of trouble and limit the interferrance you can create for them with your toy.

Remember the CB radios? They were a licensed service originally. Nobody bought the license, but almost nobody got busted unless they really broke the rules,(although people did THAT all the time). The big rules that would get you tracked (D-F/foxhunters will hunt you down over months if necessary) and POSSIBLY busted was building/modifing a high powered output amplifier and transmitting through a grand antenna system at far beyond 5 watts. With the right rigging a CB can be used over hundreds of miles. That is illegal all by itself. CB was intended as a short range intercom kind of radio service. 10-15 miles, maybe.

IMO; people in Idaho have died recently because CB is no longer carried in almost every auto. A couple people spent weeks sitting in their van stuck in a snowy mud puddle until the man finally tried to walk out. They have still not found him a year later. Essentially he was killed by the Car GPS unit he was following. A radio would have made that just an unexpected camping trip.

Your little radios will likely not actually produce legal limit transmissions at all anyway. Figure out how much power 5 watts is, and ask how long a tiny battery can produce that much current (about 7 watts to get 5 watts output anyway... battery won't last many minutes of transmission. 5 watts will really heat up a radio too... if its plastic, its probably is not meant to really use that much power... You talk too much, the radio melts inside and burns out.

But a radio can save your ass, DO carry them. Carry extra batteries. The NPS appearently are idiots, I have been told by guys in the Park services that they refuse to monitor the frequencies, (too much chatter) but maybe in Alaska they do... (I can't say, but it would be smart... Not usually much problem hearing "MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY!!!" being screamed into the middle of a regular conversation!)

However, other local users can scan and will often hear you, and THEY may be in a better situation than you and can either relay or help you themselves. Not carrying radios is the single stupidest thing I can think of, in the remote backcountry. Being able to TELL someone your precise situation is a life saver for you AND the search team.

I carry a frequency agile (Ham, not channelized) radio that will recieve almost any frequency from the bottom of AM through 1 gigahertz in almost any modulation method (AM/FM/SSB, etc). It will transmit on thousands of frequencies on 4 different bands, more if I open it with a computer and screw with it a little. Instead, I carry two radios sometimes. One will reach maybe 100 miles on a good location and at night or 50 plus miles during the day (the ham radio, with a 1/2 wave, roughly meter long antenna or longer), to another ham; the other, the FRS/GMRS, is used just to talk with my locals, the guys on climbs with/near me or my ski/bike pards, etc...

I have several antennas I can use on the ham radio, and I know how to tune the antenna to match the frequency, how to operate CTCSS remote transmitter control codes, hell, with a good handheld yagi antenna, I can operate satellite communications on special Ham-sats. ((Not a very practical system for most uses)) Most ham radios can access repeaters that can link to telephones and make a remote telephone call. You have to have a certain amount of information to do it, its not like a cell phone... I don't have time to explain...

All you need is a Novice ham license for operating some pretty good radios on 2 meters/70 centimeters. Thats almost the same frequencies ranges as the FRS/GMRS use. but I get many hundreds of frequencies. You just got to know where you need to be, with what settings.

If I hear you on a FRS/GMRS radio, I can relay you to either a telephone patch or contact someone for you directly. My Yeasu (ham rig) is now about $800 with a few accessories. Its waterproof to 3 feet and 1/2 hour while hot. You can transmit while treading water in a flood. Many are much cheaper, though with fewer features. Some guys can pass the beginners (novice) test with about 15 minutes preparation, others can need weeks... its sccording to how much you already know about electronics, and how good you can fake it. ((Who regulates radio in the US?? ...would that be the FCC maybe??))

No Morse code requirements any more, so its a lot easier now. Took me a year to get up to speed copying Morse code by ear...

I got a lot more to say, but no time.

Get the best radio you can, in pairs, with extra batteries and learn to use it on a bike trip, you will soon know what your radio can actually do. You will NOT get 25 or more miles, eight is about the max range really in real life, and if you are near the ground, over the hill a bunch, in a hole or out in the deep forest, 3 miles can be out of range... but three miles is a hell of a long way if you NEED to find somebody local to help.

If you get one of Garmins nice radios, (Called a Rino after the antennas appearance, I think), they're a little spendy, but VERy COOL as they have a built in GPS unit that can spot you to the other guy with a similar radio. You talk, then hit a button and your location pops up on a little screen on THEIR radio with distance and direction notated. A basic Garmin can be had for about $350 if I racall right. Knocks hell out of the "Search" part of "Search and Rescue"

Got to have two Garmins though for it to work... its a special feature they offer.

There is a LOT more to say on this topic. A lot of guys have died because they didn't carry a simple radio, even recently. Very recently.

The Motorola radio you linked in the OP is a little more advanced than most, and appearently CAN access the full GMRS system, though you won't find many GMRS repeaters in the American West... and you will need to know the details of frequecies and control codes beforehand if you DO want to use one. They are often closed systems, run by small communication companies as a special dedicated "telephone like" service in remote areas for small businesses and locals. On the other hand, Hams have built TONS of repeaters in the west, they are FREE to use for licensed hams and they are linked to internet, telephone and usually APRS and other features (APRS is like an automated GPS system that can automatically report back and graph your location on a map on the internet that people at home can locate your EXACT POSITION WITHOUT YOUR HELP. Like every 15 minutes. Like SPOT, without the cops and fees. Takes a lot of battery power, but WTH?

...the times listed as battery life do NOT assume you will be talking, you won't get hours of talk time, they are LISTENING hours mostly, they assume about (at least) 95% listen/5% talk... (duty cycle) You talk too much and they overheat and go dead battery.

dAMN, OUT OF TIME. Radios can save your life if you know what they can do and how to use them.

BTW:

In a TRUE EMERGENCY INVOLVING LIFE OR SERIOUS INJURY OR PROPERTY DAMAGE (MAJOR PROPERTY DAMAGE not some little bullshit!) YOU ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO USE ANY RADIO AVAILABLE ON ANY FREQUENCY. BUT YOU BETTER BE DAMN SURE, THE FINES FOR UNAUTHORIZED TRANSMISSIONS CAN BE DAMN HARSH.

MAN, I need more TIME...

Best of luck

A little info from the horses mouth.

fcc.gov/encyclopedia/genera…

Interesting post Rokjox. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out.

Wow, thanks Rokjox

Rokjox wrote:...Get the best radio you can, in pairs, with extra batteries and learn to use it on a bike trip, you will soon know what your radio can actually do.

Good orientation to the realities of radio in the back country. I'm a ham also (Advanced class, 21 years, call sign KF8MO). My wife (N8NIV) and I use our HTs a lot in the boonies, but it's very important to understand the difference between "appliance operation" and knowing how radio works. If you buy FRS/GMRS radios for appliance operator use, you should ignore the marketing claims and not expect to get more than 1/4 to 1 mile depending on terrain.

And definitely carry extra batteries, as Rokjox advises. You WILL need them, if you don't have them.

If you want more out of radio communications, in terms of distance and reasonable expectation of making contact when the chips are down, you're out of appliance mode - you need to actually understand radio. There's no way to fake that, radio is a science and you have to know what you're doing to make it work. The good news is that it's easy to learn what you're doing. You probably have a local ham club that holds Technician license classes regularly. Join up, take the class, and you will have a skill that can save your butt or someone else's when things go to hell, whether in the mountains, in a natural disaster, or whatever. You'll be able to buy and use much more capable radios, more importantly a much superior antenna, and even more importantly know how to get in contact when cellphones and FRS/GMRS are useless.

All that is "if you want more" though. If all you want is to talk to your belayer, FRS is fine, ham would be way overkill. Just understand you can't count on FRS/GMRS for more than close-range convenience communication.

I use two Motorola FRS radio's that I had used for hunting many years ago and found that they worked very well for quite a long distance (1+ miles) and are lightweight, inexpensive, and easy to use!

I use them between the lead climber and belayer. I simply hang mine on a sling around my neck/shoulder just like a runner - and find them easy to use and communicate 'Off belay' or 'Slack' - with my second when it's too windy to hear, or we get a full rope pitch apart. Yelling and hollering for me isn't what I deem a pleasant part of the alpine experience and leads to confusion and misunderstanding when too far apart to hear each other or see each other - which IMHO - can lead to disastrous mistakes, etc. There is nothing worse then accidentally having someone misunderstand "On belay?" or "Off belay" because they just can't hear me. I have had no issues with my radio's failing me, etc during a climb - and even IF they did - we'd be no worse-off then if we were climbing without them! I pack them in my pack for every outing and wen doing multi-pitch climbs often pull them out and use them!
I think they work great as well!
Also - as a climber posted above - they can be a great asset to calming someone down who is nervous or apprehensive as well....