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Anyone fall on an ice screw on lead?

Original Post
climbing2man Dispensa · · Knoxville, TN · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 80

I want to hear of climber's stories of them falling on ice screws while on lead.

I have personally never fallen on an ice screw while on lead, because the first rule of leading on ice is "Don't Fall!" But we all know things happen and there is a reason we place protection while climbing up. I have tried to find stories or videos of climbers falling on ice screws, to learn from others but can't find anything.

Why did you fall, did your ice screw hold, did you get hurt, did your ice screw break, what did you learn and what would you tell others that you wish you knew? Have any videos of yourself falling on an ice screw or others?

Climb safely while on ice,

Climbing2man

Mark NH · · 03053 · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0

There's some pix floating around from years ago (late 90's, early 00's) of a guy who took a 100 footer (maybe longer) on one of the hard routes at Lake Willoughby. Screw held! The guy wasn't too banged up either - nothing serious - and rapped off.

Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

Took a fall last season, screw (BD 16cm) was at my ankles, double ropes (mammut Phoenix), screamer, about 80 feet of rope out, hard ice.
Girlfriend got hit in the face by a small chunk of ice (standing too close), she dropped to her knees clutching the belay hard, pulling me off and holding the fall!
Screw held, I landed a couple feet above a ledge, screamer didn't open, couple EMTs climbing nearby, gf got crazyglue stitches at the clinic.

frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
Rocky_Mtn_High · · Arvada, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 230

I was belaying a partner on his very first lead (he is a good rock climber but at the time not a very experienced dide climber, and against my better judgment, he convinced me he could lead the WI3, Pumphouse at Vail, no problem). He had several screws in and was putting in a fourth when somehow he lost his footing and pitched off (leaving a tool in place that could have held a Hummer). Fortunately, he cleared a bulge cleanly, and the top screw held, but between the slack in the system, the rope stretch, and yanking me upwards, he fell all the way to a ledge just above me (and bruised his shoulder). I was shocked at how far he fell, and I think about that every time I lead.

For those reading this thread who are anxious to start leading, world-class climber Will Gadd has stated that you should have 150 pitches top-roping on ice before you take the sharp end. Read this!: gravsports.blogspot.com/201…

Clint Helander · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

I disagree with that entirely. If you feel you are ready to lead, do it. A quantitative benchmark doesn't mean much. True confidence is qualitative and that is what you should listen to.

RockinOut · · NY, NY · Joined May 2010 · Points: 100

I doubt the pioneer ice climbers had 150 pitches of top rope under their belt before they were doing first ascents of big mountains. If you look at something and are confident you can climb it go for it. Grades and numbers are pretty arbitrary, one grade can be harder or easier depending on the person.

Rocky_Mtn_High · · Arvada, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 230
clint helander wrote:I disagree with that entirely. If you feel you are ready to lead, do it. A quantitative benchmark doesn't mean much. True confidence is qualitative and that is what you should listen to.
The 150-pitch "rule" is a recommendation from an expert who teaches a lot of people how to climb ice. His point is that learning how to move on ice safely takes a lot of practice, and there are high consequences of falling.

Frankly, it is a much better and more useful guideline -- partly because it is, indeed, quantitative -- than simply "having true confidence". My friend is a case in point: he was very confident that he could lead safely, yet he was extremely lucky not to wind up with a shattered ankle, or worse.
Clint Helander · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

I'm sure that is a very good guideline for lots of people.

Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110
clint helander wrote:I disagree with that entirely. If you feel you are ready to lead, do it. A quantitative benchmark doesn't mean much. True confidence is qualitative and that is what you should listen to.
Woody Allen
David Gutzman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 113

I took a 50 foot whipper on second pitch of Stairway to Heaven. Thank goodness my 2nd screw held or I wouldn't be answering this post. Stopped about 8 feet off the ledge and my belayer. No damage to screw but my ankles were busted up! 20 feet above last screw just reaching rope up to clip into Quickdraw when my tool popped out. Too casual that day. I put plenty of gear in now!

wpfister Pfister · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 55
Taylor-B. · · Valdez, AK · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,186

Here's some "Alaskan quantitative" science on ice screws

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvgfPbKOPqY

jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

I've witnessed three falls on screws. Two of them, the climber was perhaps only 4-5' above the last screw. These were basically due to the leader pumping out (one time leaving a tool way up high that I had to go retrieve). No injuries in these cases. The third incident, the climber was more like 8-9' out. The tools popped, and from below it seemed like the ice they were in just fractured. In this third case the climber 'tucked his legs up' and was able to come down without catching a crampon spike (which I think is the way peeps break their ankles on ice falls). A few bruises, but no big deal. In all cases the screws held; the ice was in great shape and the screws were placed by experienced leaders (one in Banff, one in Lillooett, one in eastern Washington).

Each time everyone basically shit their pants, though. I think of these as three cases where the climbers got away lucky.

Bill Rusk · · Rochester, MN · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 770

I am a very lucky climber. I took two ice lead falls (separated by about a week) onto screws a few years back. I have since eased off a bit and taken a lot of time to focus on technique and absolute control when I lead ice. I started leading my second year of ice climbing. I got a big head because its one of the only activities that I did well right off the bat. My first lead was a very moderate low angle WI2. The following day I was coxed into leading the business pitch of a WI4 multi-pitch, while my more experienced partner belayed me. I do not recommend this trial by fire approach to ice leading.

It wasn't until a couple seasons later that I fell. I was repeating a WI4 pillar in Casket Quarry in Duluth, MN. Its 40-50ft tall. I placed 2-3 screws, maybe more sorry I don't remember exactly. It was well protected. I placed a bomber 16cm BD Turbo Express underneath the crux bulge and moved past it. I had a solid stick with my left tool, my feet were in a slightly awkward stem. I swung my right tool in the exact spot I always did, in between two bulges. The right bulge completely dinner plated and my placement broke free. I regained my position and prepared for another swing. As I brought my tool back, my right foot blew. I barn doored hard to my left, causing me to loose my left foot and to let my right tool fall. My grip on the my left tool slipped. I never knew I could hold my body weight with gloved ring and pinky fingers, but I did. I had a good 5 seconds to ponder my predicament before my fingers slipped and fell. I was maybe 6ft above my last screw, it held just fine. I fell 15-20ft, inverted and landed back first against vertical part of the pillar. I smashed my arm pretty good, and got a bruise. But that was the only injury. Needless to say I was traumatized. I backed off the climb and my partner retrieved the screws my rapping in.

Analysis of the fall was my feet weren't good enough. I was using dull mono point crampons. I still should have been able to get good feet. I put my self in an awkward position when I should have moved to a more solid stance before swinging. I have since gone to favoring horizontal point crampons for pure ice, and saving the monos for mixed.

My second fall was more idiotic. Shortly after my first fall I got back on the sharp end on a more moderate climb. I was trying to pull the last bulge and sketched myself out and backed down to a small ledge. I was trying to get a second lower down placement to get more comfortable. I had one bomber placement at chest height. I brought my right tool down and stupidly tried to get a second placement less than a foot away from my first. One little swing and I dinner plated the whole section. Freeing my other tool. I lost my balance fell. It was maybe a 10ft fall. It was onto a 22cm BD Turbo Express. I caught my ankle on a bulge and twisted it pretty good. Again I walked away with only minor injuries.

Neither of these falls were from me "pumping out." and obviously neither of them were intentional. What I took away is that in order to ice lead you need to in complete control. These accidents happened because I got too comfortable. Ice screws work, but so do crampons. I'm very lucky I didn't catch a foot and break my leg or worse. There is no "safe" way to fall in ice climbing. I am just one lucky dude. I haven't fallen since.

Josh · · Golden, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,140

I, too, fell on Stairway to Heaven while leading. Pitch 3 -- the steep, cruxy one, near the top of the 100-foot wall. First fall was just above the 13cm screw, in solid blue ice. Maybe 6 feet total. The screw held just fine, and the screamer didn't engage (twin ropes, with at least 100 feet of rope out, so lots of stretch in the system). The ice was so steep it was like a sport climbing fall- my feet never contacted the surface on the way down. I was desperately pumped and therefore didn't have my picks sunk well enough. When I went to hang off my leashes and gasp for a while, the tools popped. I might have shrieked a little on the way down... :) Next, I checked in with my belayer around the corner. All was well, so I rested a bit, then clambered back up to my high point, with what seemed like just enough gas left to make it to the lip, one more move beyond. I flailed desperately at the hard ice above and got a little bit of pick engaged, but it felt wobbly. I was too pumped to dick around with it much more, though so I pulled up and went for the next swing, hoping to get over the lip. I popped off again, but this time my belayer, who couldn't see me, had been working on untangling some corkscrews in the rope and gave me a "soft" catch. I ended up upside down about 20 feet below the screw. Still, the screamer only ripped its first two rows of stitching, so the whole rope-and-protection system did its job well. I was rattled, and so was my belayer, so we bailed after that. Too bad, since the steep climbing was almost over, but it reminded/taught me a few things about ice and ice pro:
-- a screw (even a stubby) in good, solid ice really is strong enough
-- the right ropes (lots of energy absorption and dynamic elongation) and draws (screamers, or at least nylon versus dyneema) probably help
-- that still doesn't mean I want to "test" ice pro nearly as often as I am willing to test rock pro (which is still not as often as I should be willing)
-- the same thick ice is at least a grade harder when it is 1) cold (hard as opposed to plastic) and 2) has not been climbed yet (every pick placement took 3-4 swings to excavate, as opposed to simply hooking existing holes)

A few years ago, Black Diamond and Petzl (I think) did a bunch of pull-out tests on screws in good ice and came up with very high numbers for KNs of force held before failing. That's when they discovered the thing about the strongest placement position (slightly downward facing, as opposed to perpendicular to the ice surface). Basically the ice was failing before the screws were breaking. The tube shape began to slightly deform, but each screw held until several thousand pounds of force pulled the ice itself apart. It led me to believe the strength of a point of ice protection is limited by the quality of the medium (the ice) long before it is limited by the equipment. I now climb very differently (i.e. more or less conservatively) depending on how brittle/plastic/soft/hard/thick/rotten the ice is and try not to second guess my screws themselves, just the ice they are sitting in.

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

Once, at hidden falls in RMNP. The screw didn't really hold the full fall, as I landed ass first on a ledge about four feet beneath me, the top stopped me from sliding off the ledge, but I doubt the screw held anything resembling a real fall force

Steve Jones · · Fayetteville WV, · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 105

I've taken two ice whippers, both in Ouray. One was an upside down 55 footer, which resulted in a few days in the Montrose Hospital (thank you local rescue squad and thanks to the ambulance emt for not cutting off my gortex). Results: 3 broken ribs, 3 cracked vertebrae, a punctured lung, but the brain damage, no one could even tell the difference.

The other was a 25 footer after pulling off a 3 x 4 ft ledge of ice. I got right back on the route, full of adrenaline and finished it only to find my crampons had cut about 1/2 way through the rope. The screws held in both falls.

I think ice screws are bomber if placed properly in solid ice. The injuries come from the things you hit on the way down. We use double ropes now.

Garret Nuzzo Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,436

I took a ~25 footer on Stairway to Heaven (sensing a trend here?) in Utah. My first screw ripped right out, but I knew it was garbage anyway. The next screw down held me as I bounced past a ledge. The screw that popped was a 12cm Grivel, the one that held was a 13cm BD. Neither had any evidence of damage or fractures around the ice.

Sprained an ankle and learned a lesson the hard way about not being so confident when ice climbing.

Clint Helander · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

Because of this thread I'm never going to climb stairway to heaven.

Dick Stone · · Boulder · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 220

Witnessed a guy years ago soloing Stairway to Heaven. Just as he topped out he whipped. Came down a long way and screws pulled/broke along the way as he fell.
The last one held just as he almost cratered into a flat spot. I think my buddy submitted it in "whipper of the month" back then in R&I.

More recent story.... the partner of a friend of mine was climbing in Cody on thin, sunny ice. The ice gave way, partner fell, pro held. The problem was he was climbing on skinny ropes. If it wasn't for the stretch (from what I was told) he never would have decked and shattered his feet/legs. It was a big rescue and big recovery for the poor guy! We followed his trail of blood from the rescue as we were climbing up the same gully the following day...arghh.

Don't fall on ice!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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