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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Feb 24, 2014

Marek Sapkovski wrote:
...I know being lighter is better. You could never have ideal technique, it's something that has to be tweaked and perfected at any level. Climbing strength, unfortunately, is mostly about grip to weight ratio and for most people weight is an easy fix.

That's the thing though, trying to attain climbing strength by losing weight is like bumping against a glass ceiling. And while certainly level of fitness helps your training, beyond that, trying to lose too much weight will only have a temporary effect & probably will end up hurting you in the long term (seems like I keep bumping into really thin & strong climbers that end up having all kinds of body ailment).


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Feb 24, 2014

Marek Sapkovski wrote:
Out of curiosity, how tall are you? PS. I have read somewhere that for someone with good technique, 10lbs is equivalent (not perfectly, but close) to about 1.5 French letter grades. E.g. someone who is climbing 7b would find that he's able to work on redpointing 7c+.


5'8" - 5'9". Seems ridiculous that I don't get repeatable stats but there it is, having measured 4 times in the last 3 weeks (shopping for a new mtn bike).


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By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Feb 25, 2014

Jon Frisby wrote:
According to this calculator thing, I went from 26.5 > 23.8. I'm 5'11 and 171 and was previously 190. I think my body fat's around 12%. I'm hoping to get down to around 165 and 10% body fat.

Strong work Jon! I'll bet that took some serious effort.


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By Jon Frisby
From New York, NY
Feb 25, 2014

Optimistic wrote:
Strong work Jon! I'll bet that took some serious effort.

Thanks! Good Luck!!!


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By josh villeneuve
From Enfield, CT
Feb 25, 2014

reboot wrote:
That's the thing though, trying to attain climbing strength by losing weight is like bumping against a glass ceiling. And while certainly level of fitness helps your training, beyond that, trying to lose too much weight will only have a temporary effect & probably will end up hurting you in the long term (seems like I keep bumping into really thin & strong climbers that end up having all kinds of body ailment).



Very true, you can only lose so much weight until reaching diminishing returns. Which is why I bulk and then cut. Mentally and physically taxing but thats the game of any athlete pushing their bodily limits.


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By 5.samadhi
Feb 25, 2014
me

josh villeneuve wrote:
Very true, you can only lose so much weight until reaching diminishing returns. Which is why I bulk and then cut. Mentally and physically taxing but thats the game of any athlete pushing their bodily limits.

this is pretty much an outdated myth from the bodybuilding world.

Even bodybuilders today are largely not doing this. What you see in their physiques have more to do with the cycling of anabolic/androgenic steroids than their bulking/cutting routines. They are mainly all recompositioning (there are some murky details about marketing themselves that we won't get into but yeah).

Certainly an athlete like a sport climber will not want to be bulking and cutting.

You may be talking about carb/calorie cycling which is accepted as good practice for stimulating thyroid output while cycling phases of caloric deficit (where a straight deficit for weeks and months would depress the thyroid).


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By Marek Sapkovski
Feb 25, 2014

reboot wrote:
That's the thing though, trying to attain climbing strength by losing weight is like bumping against a glass ceiling. And while certainly level of fitness helps your training, beyond that, trying to lose too much weight will only have a temporary effect & probably will end up hurting you in the long term (seems like I keep bumping into really thin & strong climbers that end up having all kinds of body ailment).

The general thought is that you want to be as thin as you can without significantly compromising your health. In general, probably want to stay away from your personal extreme most of the time. For a climber focused on a hard redpoint, temporary effect is more then enough. Steve Haston recently went on an extreme diet so he can redpoint 9a. It does, btw, get more important as one gets older, it's way harder to get strong and the only way you can tweak that grip/weight ratio is by lowering the denominator.


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Feb 25, 2014

I just ate my invention (that totally predates Taco Bell's blatant ripoff), the pancakurrito.

I weigh 136. BMI 20.1.

Enjoy your diets bitches.


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By Marek Sapkovski
Feb 25, 2014

nicelegs wrote:
I just ate my invention (that totally predates Taco Bell's blatant ripoff), the pancakurrito. I weigh 136. BMI 20.1. Enjoy your diets bitches.

Let's see how that works for you in ten years :P Btw, my BMI is the same and I feel pretty fat.


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By josh villeneuve
From Enfield, CT
Feb 25, 2014

5.samadhi wrote:
this is pretty much an outdated myth from the bodybuilding world. Even bodybuilders today are largely not doing this. What you see in their physiques have more to do with the cycling of anabolic/androgenic steroids than their bulking/cutting routines. They are mainly all recompositioning (there are some murky details about marketing themselves that we won't get into but yeah). Certainly an athlete like a sport climber will not want to be bulking and cutting. You may be talking about carb/calorie cycling which is accepted as good practice for stimulating thyroid output while cycling phases of caloric deficit (where a straight deficit for weeks and months would depress the thyroid).



My goals are comp bouldering related/v12 and higher. Meaning, I need very strong shoulders. So, while building my shoulder hypertrophy I gain a few pounds (bulking). I am not talking anything massive but I find it helpful to cycle on and off my "fighting weight".


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By doligo
Feb 25, 2014
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

Marek Sapkovski wrote:
Let's see how that works for you in ten years :P Btw, my BMI is the same and I feel pretty fat.


not to make you feel bad, but nicelegs is way past the age demographic of the study you had quoted earlier up thread. IIRC, he struggles to keep weight on. I don't know whom I'm more jealous of - him all skinny without trying or his girlfriend being sub-5' and crushing...


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Feb 25, 2014

Marek Sapkovski wrote:
Let's see how that works for you in ten years :P Btw, my BMI is the same and I feel pretty fat.


Oddly enough, my mid 30's sped my metabolism up substantially.

I am at the same weight now as I was when doing Ironmans in my early 20's. I'm the same weight I was when I was racing bikes in my mid 20's. I'm lighter now than when I was able to reliably send 5.13.

I'm probably primed to get better than ever but between returning to school and fulltime work, I'm happy to climb once every two weeks.

As for you feeling fat at 20.1, you probably need to see a psychiatrist. I'm a beanpole of rail. No ass, bony knees, and ribs everywhere. I can't imagine you are any different.


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By 5.samadhi
Feb 25, 2014
me

josh villeneuve wrote:
My goals are comp bouldering related/v12 and higher. Meaning, I need very strong shoulders. So, while building my shoulder hypertrophy I gain a few pounds (bulking). I am not talking anything massive but I find it helpful to cycle on and off my "fighting weight".

I follow. How much shoulder hypertrophy do you need for bouldering though? So far the boulder problems I've encountered are more about finger strength and body tension.

I've been around the country to all the major bouldering areas many times. But then again I've only sent V8.

Seems like the 10s-12s I've seen are more about body tension than anything.

But I applaud your consistency since i've seen you post about shoulder hypertrophy before. How much have you hypertrophied your shoulders over time? Do you focus on rear deltoid or medial/front delts also????

What about pectoral hypertrophy for compression problems? Do you think/care about that or is it all shoulders for you?

I suppose we could talk privately about this (I think we have before) instead of creating thread drift.

peace Josh


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By 5.samadhi
Feb 25, 2014
me

nicelegs wrote:
Oddly enough, my mid 30's sped my metabolism up substantially. I am at the same weight now as I was when doing Ironmans in my early 20's. I'm the same weight I was when I was racing bikes in my mid 20's. I'm lighter now than when I was able to reliably send 5.13. I'm probably primed to get better than ever but between returning to school and fulltime work, I'm happy to climb once every two weeks. As for you feeling fat at 20.1, you probably need to see a psychiatrist. I'm a beanpole of rail. No ass, bony knees, and ribs everywhere. I can't imagine you are any different.

pics needed Marek to assess your mental objectivity of yourself.


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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Feb 25, 2014

doligo wrote:
I don't know whom I'm more jealous of - him all skinny without trying or his girlfriend being sub-5' and crushing...

I'm surprised a "my girlfriend can crush harder than your girlfriend" thread hasn't been started.

Marek Sapkovski wrote:
The general thought is that you want to be as thin as you can without significantly compromising your health...Steve Haston recently went on an extreme diet so he can redpoint 9a.

I actually think if you are playing the long game, it's more important to maintain a baseline level of muscular strength than a specific BMI. You can be thinner w/o risking your general health, but for training, a bit more muscular strength is beneficial to long term progress, at least that seems to be where training is gravitating toward around here. Of course, you can go on an extreme diet to send a couple grades harder, fighters, lifters do that all the time. But don't confuse that with their walking around weight. Yes, the other extreme can also be detrimental to training (as optimal technique is physique dependent).


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By nicelegs
From Denver
Feb 25, 2014

reboot wrote:
I'm surprised a "my girlfriend can crush harder than your girlfriend" thread hasn't been started.


She doesn't like it when I boast about her.


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By Marek Sapkovski
Feb 25, 2014

reboot wrote:
I actually think if you are playing the long game, it's more important to maintain a baseline level of muscular strength than a specific BMI. You can be thinner w/o risking your general health, but for training, a bit more muscular strength is beneficial to long term progress, at least that seems to be where training is gravitating toward around here.

Before my current occupation, I was a professional dancer which is a "gravity sport" of sorts too. The saying goes that "Ballet makes a beautiful body out of a healthy one" (sorry, does not sound as well in translation). Equally preoccupied by weight and equally bad for your joints/tendons etc - so I have a pretty good idea what to look for feeling-wise.

For climbing, I have a feel-good-training weight (around 63kg) and performance weight (around 60kg). I think letting myself above the feel-good weight is bad (hard to lose it), so I watch what I eat, but I keep it real. However, before trips I'd usually try to get down to 60kg which has been a struggle this time around.


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By josh villeneuve
From Enfield, CT
Feb 25, 2014

5.samadhi wrote:
I follow. How much shoulder hypertrophy do you need for bouldering though? So far the boulder problems I've encountered are more about finger strength and body tension. I've been around the country to all the major bouldering areas many times. But then again I've only sent V8. Seems like the 10s-12s I've seen are more about body tension than anything. But I applaud your consistency since i've seen you post about shoulder hypertrophy before. How much have you hypertrophied your shoulders over time? Do you focus on rear deltoid or medial/front delts also???? What about pectoral hypertrophy for compression problems? Do you think/care about that or is it all shoulders for you? I suppose we could talk privately about this (I think we have before) instead of creating thread drift. peace Josh


Its been all about the shoulders recently. A year or so ago I realized that I couldn't do really hard static moves and I was suffering from it. I had a very dynamic style which meant I had to rely sorely on difficult deadpoints. So, I decided to start building as much muscle strength as possible. I've gained a lot of strength (3 one arms on my right, and 1 on my left) but the hypertrophy hasn't been much. Mostly because I made the mistake of (cutting) without the aid of protein and creatine.
I've lost so much weight that finger strength hasn't really been a factor and I don't tend to climb much compression outside. Which is
why I tend to get wrecked indoors because everything over v7 is fatty sloper pinches with lots of compression.
All or most of my fat goes to my thighs and calves so my core instantly improves from dropping that weight hahaha.

Most of the v10s-v12s I look at don't really require that most tension though. They are usually about ridiculous lock off strength or hard deadpoints. I am not much of a crazy cave climber though...think more along the lines of "The Mandala" hideous crimpfests!!!


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By Charles Kinbote
From Brooklyn, NY
Feb 25, 2014
On Waimea, 5.10d

Whoa, some of you guys are light. I'm a hair over 170 and I'm going to see how I feel at 160. If that goes well, I'll try getting to the low 150's. Pretty sure I'd have to cut off a leg to make 140.


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By Tevis Blom
Feb 25, 2014

I pretty much get paid to stay in shape.
I got pretty fat in grad school, around 220 and very soft. Working at a computer is death!
After graduation I started back in construction work. 14 months later my waist is 4 inches less. Have not weighed myself in a while, probably still hovering around 200, but its muscle instead of fat now...
I should probably start climbing again :0

An inspirational photo for you all:

fat guy lowering
fat guy lowering


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By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Mar 8, 2014

Just a little update for other gravitationally challenged MP'ers: using the Noom app mentioned above to log diet and exercise, and pretty happy with it so far.

Basically just been following the calorie limit, which is getting easier and easier to do as the days go on...I think I had really developed some seriously crappy eating habits, and the app is a nice way to curb that. Especially impressed with how consistently eating better and eating less has reduced my appetite.

Anyway, ~1800 cal/day (the app varies your limit based on exercise), trying to really favor the veggies and fruits and such. Exercise has been moderate, bouldering 3x/wk and a about 3 sessions total of light cardio. Lost 4 pounds in 2 weeks without too much effort. 16 left to go, I'm sure that'll require dialing up the cardio at some point.


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By Meme Guy
From Land of Runout Slab
Mar 8, 2014
Meme guy

Too much alcohol and sugar, not enough activity.

I'm in the best shape of my life because I quit drinking soda, bought a farm, and started eating veggies, chickens, and eggs from said farm. The work on the farm is hard and physically demanding and keeps me from sleeping the days away. I still get roaring drunk in Roaring Gap though.

Daily intake is about 3500-4000 calories still pretty high, but I get them from decent sources.


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