Anyone else had appalling service from FiveTen?

I'm trying to get a hold of a supervisor on the phone to resolve an issue. It's now 10:35am in California (or so says my phone) and no supervisor has yet arrived at the FiveTen Customer Service office. I find that very hard to believe, but that is what I'm told. So not only does it seem the customer service representative cannot address my issue, but there is no-one else there who is able to do so. I really expected more from a company I've had such faith in.

Has anyone else had difficulties dealing with FiveTen?

Rob T wrote:... eliminated the loops ...

Crazy talk!

And as if by magic, I have received some help.

The issue was that the Anasazi Guides seem to be a full size up to get the right fit (flat toed and comfy, as per the description). However a representative has just gone and personally checked his sizing in the Moccs vs the Guides and said he is a size up in the Guides, so I probably am too. Now if they can just take the info from my original order and put it into the "Return Form" (just lines of prompt in an email) and issue me an RA# like every company I've dealt with before, the service will be what I expect. Then we'll all be happy.

I *was* told on the phone that refunds are now only in the form of checks, and not "refund to original form of payment" as their form states. That was annoying. I also ended up dealing with two different reps (one much less helpful than the other). But they're now making an attempt to rectify the situation in a satisfactory manner, which is pleasing.

I've never heard good things about FiveTen, and the one pair of shoes I bought from them fell apart within a month. Abandon all hope.

I've always had really good interactions with 5.10 customer support. I had to return a bunch of shoes for different size - no problem. I warrantied a pair of shoes that started delaminating prematurely - no problem. I've been climbing in 5.10s for the past 3 years. They are awesome! Both the company and the product.

so you bought a pair of shoes without knowing your sizing or the company's return policy, and now yer PISSED!

why do I even log on here?

Tom Sherman wrote: why do I even log on here?

For a good laugh here and there.

Great service. I just returned a pair of shoes that were too small. They emailed me a prepaid UPS label in like 2 minutes.

Tom Sherman wrote:so you bought a pair of shoes without knowing your sizing or the company's return policy, and now yer PISSED! why do I even log on here?

Well let's see. I'm a size 12 in the Moccasyms, Anasazi VCS, Dragons, Camp 4, and Guide Tennies. Literally every model I've tried on my feet up til the Anasazi Guides has fit at size 12. So why shouldn't these? Why are these so tight in a size 12 that my toes are curled up quite tightly, when the design is supposed to be for a flat toed fit? Makes no sense to me. Honestly I expect an honest effort by a company to have some consistency in sizing, not perfect consistency, but close. Had I been able to locate these shoes in a store, I would have simply gone to a store. They seem to be unavailable anywhere close to me.

That was my original issue. But it's not the reason I posted. I posted because I sought advice on the sizing. I've been talk to two different reps, who I've just discovered may not even be aware they've both been dealing with me. I was talking to one, then another seemed to take over. Then the first one was back, now I've got the second one again. Totally independent of each other. A reply from the first rep (who went and compared sizing between the moccs and guides on his own feet) apparently accidentally saved the email as a draft. In between all this I've tried to contact a supervisor to find none in the office and only the second rep on the phone who was of no help with the sizing whatsoever.

So yeah, Tom, I'm pissed cos I don't know my size. That's the issue.

Edited: And you know what, up until this point, I've had nothing but GOOD things to say about FiveTen. But my past experience with returns or exchanges on web purchases has been so easy. I contact whichever company I purchased from, we find a solution, I send the product back for either an exchange or a direct refund (not a check in the mail). And I don't have to fill out a "form" because THEY document it all themselves. I went directly to FiveTen because I saw no reason not to give them more profit on a sale by cutting out the middle man. I wasn't seeking a deal, I paid the MSRP. I just wanted a pair of comfortable all day trad shoes,with a stiff sole, and I figured I might as well deal with them directly.

I like FiveTen shoes and have always found their high end shoes to be high quality (the beginner/cheaper stuff seems lower quality). I have a lot more problems with the quality of Sportiva stuff (just my experience - don't wanna start a war here...)

With that said, anyone know what is happening internally at FiveTen lately? Seems to me that since they were purchased by Adidas, their climbing shoe line has suffered = very few approach shoes anymore, trimmed the climbing shoe line, no new great shoes released in a while, etc. I know they are killing it in the MTB shoe world (they 100% own the platform pedal shoe market) but seems their climbing line of business is suffering.

Support your local climbing shop.

The Call Of K2 Lou wrote:Support your local climbing shop.

I tried. I really did. No one had them in stock. A guy at Neptune's had a personal pair, in size 12, new in box that he let me try. They fit well. I tried to special order them but after much dithering by the girl at the counter, was told that they couldn't because they didn't stock them. I was on my way climbing so I just left.

Update on this (if you care):

The first representative I corresponded with was really good. After I expressed concerns about lack of consistency in sizing between models, he went an personally compared fit between a model I wear and the guides. He suggested a full size up and took care of the "form" for the return information using the order I had original made and our emails. The shoes are now in the mail back FiveTen for an exchange. He also gave me his supervisor's name and phone number in case I needed to talk to her still. I'm definitely feeling much better about this situation. As to how the second rep got involved, I have no idea.

The Call Of K2 Lou wrote:Support your local climbing shop.

Why?

Mathias wrote: I'm a size 12 in the Moccasyms, Anasazi VCS, Dragons, Camp 4, and Guide Tennies. Literally every model I've tried on my feet up til the Anasazi Guides has fit at size 12. So why shouldn't these? Why are these so tight in a size 12 that my toes are curled up quite tightly, when the design is supposed to be for a flat toed fit? Makes no sense to me. Honestly I expect an honest effort by a company to have some consistency in sizing, not perfect consistency, but close.

5 out of 6 seems pretty consistent to me. The Anasazi Guide's description states that it has a low profile toe, maybe this is the source of the problem. Maybe the guy at 5.10 has a more narrow foot or he doesn't mind a really tight shoe.

I would say that 5.10 has pretty awesome consistency considering that I have not needed to change shoes sizes in their shoes for over 15 years.

Buying shoes sight unseen is a roll of the dice at best

I have climbed in Five Ten shoes for 20+ years, and buy 3-4 pairs per year. Had multiple friends and partners who worked for them for many, many years; regularly train with employees who currently work there, and pop by the HQ on the reg. I've returned exactly one pair out of about 75.

You sound like an entitled whiner to me, "oh my god, it's 10:30 and nobody is there to fluff my nutz over a trivial issue". "Oh no, I didn't try on the model and assumed they fit the same as some other model". Newsflash: different shoes built on different lasts with different sizing. What a concept.

I wear as large as a 10.5 in some models and as small as 9 in others. Some I can't wear at all because my foot shape is different from the last. Which is why you TRY THEM ON.

Why support your local shop? Really? So you have a place you can go and try on, see, etc products in the flesh or get things at short notice. So you don't end up like this whiner.

100% kidding. But thank you for the other nuggets of great entertainment you left us.

Will S wrote:I have climbed in Five Ten shoes for 20+ years, and buy 3-4 pairs per year. Had multiple friends and partners who worked for them for many, many years; regularly train with employees who currently work there, and pop by the HQ on the reg. I've returned exactly one pair out of about 75. You sound like an entitled whiner to me, "oh my god, it's 10:30 and nobody is there to fluff my nutz over a trivial issue". "Oh no, I didn't try on the model and assumed they fit the same as some other model". Newsflash: different shoes built on different lasts with different sizing. What a concept. I wear as large as a 10.5 in some models and as small as 9 in others. Some I can't wear at all because my foot shape is different from the last. Which is why you TRY THEM ON. Why support your local shop? Really? So you have a place you can go and try on, see, etc products in the flesh or get things at short notice. So you don't end up like this whiner.

Did you read everything I wrote? No, no you didn't. How about you go do that. You might find that I DID try a pair on, that I couldn't buy them in a store, that the lasts ARE the same, and that the sizing issue is not the reason I posted. I get it, the FiveTen guys are your buddies, you're tight with them. Good for you. When I want to talk to a supervisor about an issue, I expect someone to be there. How demanding of me to expect such a thing from a Customer Service Department. I should just call and call repeatedly and talk to the same guy who tells me there's no supervisor in the office, and be super happy about that. And how dare I expect that a size N in one shoe fit something close to a size N in another shoe. Units of measurement?! Psh!! They're just for fancy folk. Shame on me for assuming these things; I'm just a entitled whiner.

This is not a dig against 5.10 but about local shops. I live in Ohio and have size 13 feet. In 32 years of climbing I have never been able to walk into any store (climbing) and try on climbing shoes pretty much anywhere in the country. Even Neptune didn't have size 13 equivalents when I was there several years ago. Now to give them their due - they ordered in 3 or 4 pair for me and I tried them on (and bought) during my weeks vacation in Colorado. I normally have to order 2 or 3 pair I think will be close and then return the ones that don't fit (and sometimes none of them fit). The issue with climbing shoes is the way we require them to fit is so exacting as to make it nearly impossible to relate across brands or even models in the same brand. The advent of the slingshot rand really made the problem worse also - in years past (and in a few models still) the shoes would break in somewhat to your foot - now that doesn't occur much if any - and heel fit became an issue that didn't exist before. Those of you who can walk into a climbing shop and try on several different shoes in several different sizes need to appreciate how lucky you are.

Mathias wrote: Units of measurement?! Psh!!

As a serious aside to this sarcastic comment, it's worth mentioning that shoe sizing (to say nothing about fit, though that can play a bit part in this) is about as far from a precise science as it gets. Your profile implies that you are relatively near the beginning of your climbing career, so be warned: while this is true of shoes in general, it's especially (and often frustratingly) the case with climbing shoes.

I fully appreciate that your central frustration is with the customer service aspect of your experience, but you also seem pointedly annoyed at the sizing problem as well. I get it, it's annoying as hell when you order a pair of shoes in your street shoe size and you can barely get your feet into them, never mind that your toes are supposed to sit flat. But the important element is this: if a poor fit from a pair of shoes ordered online sets you off, you're on a hair trigger and the rest of your climbing career is going to be filled with a lot of frustration. The more shoes you try on over time, the easier it gets to fit them first try.

As to the customer service "debacle," I've dealt with an enormous number of climbing companies in a personal context as well as in the course of spending time at Blister Gear Review. While every company on earth has regrettable moments, it's almost always the exception rather than the rule with outdoor companies. In general these folks are great. This is definitely true of Five Ten, in my experience. I'm sure you'll have good experiences with them in the future, so for now give them some credit for recovering their fumble and call it a day.

Dave: I actually am very pleased with how this is now being dealt with by the customer service rep I initially had contact with. He's been extremely helpful and I have let him know that I greatly appreciate what HE has done to resolve the situation.

Yes the sizing issue has been frustrating, and I was unfortunately (due to all my other experience with the brand) under the incorrect assumption that the sizing was very similar (though not the same) across the brand. Now that I know differently I will be much more likely to buy in-store than online, especially when it comes to models with more complex designs.