anonymous accounts

I believe we could have an open and honest discourse on subjects if everyone used their real name rather than being able to hide behind a fake screen name.

My question to all is whether we can or should do so? I am firmly on the side of transparency. I believe it would slow down the flamers and trolls; maybe even cause us to behave as the decent people we really are.

I used to use my real name but I changed it to annoy someone. I will change it back eventually because I agree with you, however, I don't think people using their real name stops them from saying ridiculous things. Besides, how would you know it's their real name? Maybe you must register with a credit card?

Trolls are a natural species of the internet.

manuel rangel wrote:My question to all is whether we can or should do so?

Some people want to use there real names and do, others choose not to. Trying to force everyone to use a real name would drive those who do not want to away - and I'll bet more of the pseudonyms are for worthwhile posters than trolls.

I also don't buy the idea that real names mean people aren't going to be annoying or an asshole; some people are annoying assholes.

Anonymity isn't a good growth medium for good manners.

Nevertheless, I changed my Mountain Project nom de guerre so that nobody would ever guess my true identity...

Some of us may be wasting valuable work hours on the internet. Everything you post here is indexed by Google. If you have a fairly unique name, it is essentially putting everything you say on public record for bosses, crazy ex's, relatives etc.

manuel rangel wrote:I believe we could have an open and honest discourse on subjects if everyone used their real name rather than being able to hide behind a fake screen name. My question to all is whether we can or should do so? I am firmly on the side of transparency. I believe it would slow down the flamers and trolls; maybe even cause us to behave as the decent people we really are.

Your assumptions are demonstrably false. The most obvious and simple reason is that not all people are decent. Anonymity on the Internet is something that should guarded ferociously.

I fully agree. Transparency all the way.

Yes. Transparency.

I am a member of a forum that requires real names to be used, but I don't think that the community here has enough pull to force that upon users the way Reduser.net is able to.

I think that a much better option would be to limit people to one account. This is obviously rather tricky, but this influx of people setting up "troll accounts" needs to end immediately.

manuel rangel wrote:I believe we could have an open and honest discourse on subjects if everyone used their real name rather than being able to hide behind a fake screen name. My question to all is whether we can or should do so? I am firmly on the side of transparency. I believe it would slow down the flamers and trolls; maybe even cause us to behave as the decent people we really are.

I am 100% with you Manny. I don't know that it is enforceable, but I wish it were. What is it about a keyboard & some anonymity that causes people to act like assholes?

MojoMonkey wrote: ...and I'll bet more of the pseudonyms are for worthwhile posters than trolls. ...

I don't know about that. Over the last year or so it seems to be the other way. Maybe I'm wrong.

MojoMonkey wrote: ...I also don't buy the idea that real names mean people aren't going to be annoying or an asshole; some people are annoying assholes.

While it wouldn't stop it 100%, IMHO it certainly would, as Manny wrote, "Slow it down."

DannyUncanny wrote: ...If you have a fairly unique name, it is essentially putting everything you say on public record ...

Which is exactly why people tend to act better when their name is on it than when they can act like an ass with no ramifications. IMHO people being responsible for their actions is a good thing. One can always use a semi-anonymous name with real info in their profile.

-sp wrote: Your assumptions are demonstrably false. The most obvious and simple reason is that not all people are decent...

Demonstrably? Really? Maybe you should prove it then. I think not, but if someone feels like actually doing the research & crunching the numbers, I would be interested in the results. I believe that SOME people that behave decently at the crag or in other face-to-face social settings act like an ass on the internet when using anonymous aliases.

Peter Franzen wrote: ...I think that a much better option would be to limit people to one account. This is obviously rather tricky, but this influx of people setting up "troll accounts" needs to end immediately.

I hope you can pull it off.

I really dislike the trolls & flamers that seem to have proliferated this site in the last year or 3. Then again, I never got my jollies by angering people or by pissing on others cheerios. If you do, then what does that say about you?

I have chosen to post only my first name for legitimate reasons, but my account is far from anonymous. If someone sees my user name and wants to know more about me/who I am, just check the profile. If MP.com feels that is not sufficient, I will change it to add my last name. Furthermore, I try not to post jerkish, insulting comments. If anyone feels that I do, please let me know.

There are plenty of climbing sites around where trolls & flamers are accepted, even celebrated. rc.com, boldering.com (is that still around?), & supertopo come to mind. So if one wants to be a jerk, why not just do it there?

Finally, speaking again of demonstrative things, I bet if one looked at all the trollish/flaming/jerkish comments on this site in the last year or 3, a VERY high percentage of them would be from anonymous usernames. Does anyone doubt this?

Mike wrote: Which is exactly why people tend to act better when their name is on it than when they can act like an ass with no ramifications. IMHO people being responsible for their actions is a good thing.

Would you want all of your conversations with friends to be published in the local newspaper? I know I wouldn't.

Mike wrote:What is it about a keyboard & some anonymity that causes people to act like assholes?

Courtesy of Penny-Arcade.com, I present this old comic:



I wish there were a better explanation, but some people just can't stop acting like 3rd graders when they have anonymity to hide behind.

DannyUncanny wrote: Would you want all of your conversations with friends to be published in the local newspaper? I know I wouldn't.

No, but I try not to act like an ass when speaking with friends. Also, when speaking directly to friends (or anyone for that matter) the ramifications for acting like a dick are still there. That is not so on the internet.

As stated earlier, one can always post under a semi-legit username and post their identifying info in their profile.

I post under my reel name.

Mike wrote:...I have chosen to post only my first name for legitimate reasons, but my account is far from anonymous...

From your profile:
Personal: Lives in Phoenix, Male
Favorite Climbs: none specified
Other Interests: none specified
Personal/Favorite web site: outdooradventuresaz.com
Likes to climb: Trad climbs none specified

From my profile:
Personal: Lives in East-Coast, Male
Favorite Climbs: none specified
Other Interests: none specified
Personal/Favorite web site: depechemode.com/
Likes to climb: none specified

Hi Mike, my name is Stephen, now we now know almost exactly the same information about each other. And before I list myriad examples of why the world isn't full of decent people, would you mind offering your legitimate reasons for not providing more information?

Transparency is not the solution, it is nothing more than a weak crutch. It limits free expression, is discriminatory at best and down-right dangerous at worst.

I like my handle.

Steve

Mike wrote:I really dislike the trolls & flamers that seem to have proliferated this site in the last year or 3. Then again, I never got my jollies by angering people or by pissing on others cheerios. If you do, then what does that say about you? There are plenty of climbing sites around where trolls & flamers are accepted, even celebrated. rc.com, boldering.com (is that still around?), & supertopo come to mind. So if one wants to be a jerk, why not just do it there?

What makes "trolls" so bad on the forums? If you don't like what's said by someone then don't read it. That sort of behavior is of course unacceptable in route comments descriptions etc, but I couldn't care less what some prick says in a forum.

Personally I do get my jollies from pissing people off in the forums. Why? Because the fact that people take what some prick (me) says on the forums way too seriously is highly entertaining. Are we all posting here to affirm our self worth? I should hope not. I think just about anything should be acceptable up to accusing someone of illegal crimes. Is trolling annoying to some? Sure, but is it worth the effort to stop it? Does it actually effect the community in a negative way? I enjoy the trolling because it takes some critical thinking to evaluate and respond to an argument. Yes, sometimes it devolves into name calling too but that can also be engaging and entertaining.

Also, how would you define "troll" behavior? It seems people get their panties in a bunch when someone simply disagrees with them. If we are to crack down on "trolls" there has to be some sort of guidelines regarding what is trolling and what's not (I bet that thread would get long!).

Back to anonymity; I'll bet there's some sort of system where a credit card is taken for identity verification but not charged. Then, whatever name is on your CC will be your username. If someone steels a CC to make a troll account then they've got bigger problems than the MP community can deal with ;)

This anti-troll seems to be alot of "Daddy! Daddy! Climbs4ever called me a doodey head!" and my response is "Yea? Who fuckin' cares what that shit head says. GET BACK TO WORK!"

I don't care if anyone uses their real name or even if they are polite or not. The gold standard is if they have something to say that is of value. Value can be entertainment, information, whatever. Those that don't offer anything of value get ignored by the rest of the forum, so it's self-policing.

I would rather someone be snarky and off color anonymously to keep snooping employers from prying, so those of you under the microscope keep at it. There is no such thing as "free" speech after all. Everything has its price.

To me the problem goes beyond making snarky comments or being a jerk, it is about common decency. As someone pointed out, not everyone is decent. But the fact that your comments are now public record, as if you were quoted in the daily newspaper, might make you think twice about making insulting or inflammatory allegations that you would not do if your name was tied to the incredible statements I've been reading lately.

@ -sp: "Transparency is not the solution, it is nothing more than a weak crutch. It limits free expression, is discriminatory at best and down-right dangerous at worst." You must be a politician. Guess you didn't read Mike's website.

Lurking Queer wrote:Yes. Transparency.

and yet...

-sp wrote: ...Hi Mike, my name is Stephen, now we now know almost exactly the same information about each other. ...

That statement would be true if you were the members of Depeche Mode (not just one but all of them) which is what you have on your website. However I doubt that is true, so I guess your statement isn't true either.

-sp wrote: ...Transparency is not the solution, it is nothing more than a weak crutch. It limits free expression, is discriminatory at best and down-right dangerous at worst.

This isn't a First Amendment type of issue. MP.com isn't the government. It is a private website that can do as it pleases. No one has any right to be here. When one signs up for inclusion in this private venture, they only give 2 guidelines. They first ask that you sign up using your real name. They then ask that you don't be a jerk. If people can't abide by those 2 simple guidelines, then they shouldn't be upset if they get canned.

I don't think the reason this post was started was b/c of people like you. I don't personally recall you ever posting inflammatory type messages. And while I disagree with you on this subject, your posts seem to be on topic, well thought out, and of a non-antagonistic tone.

To everyone:
Again, of all the negative, inflammatory posts on this site in the last few years, what is the percentage that were posted by anonymous accounts? It seems like a pretty high percentage to me, and apparently to others.