Alpine Touring gear for ice climbing approach

Ice Peeps,

Howdy. Here's a boot warmth question.

Traditionally I have used snow shoes for ice climb approaches and kept the same boots on all day. They stay warm.

Now we are interested in A.T. skiing up to more remote alpine ice, transitioning to Nepal Evo's and Batura's for climbing, then getting back in the A.T. gear at days end and skiing out. Those A.T. boots could get cold.
We are aware of Silvretta bindings for use with vertical ice boots but have ruled them out due to the ice boot's lack of support during the ski out.
We are thinking of using chemical warmers to keep the boots warm while climbing and skiing.
Edit: The ice boots would be in our packs during the approach and the A.T. boots would be in our packs at the base of the ice climb. Chemical warmers vs. electric warmers?
It seems we would need A LOT of chemical warmers for A.T. boots sitting at the base of an ice climb all day.

We are solid with beacons, probes and shovel but want to ask the community about any tricks of the trade regarding boot transport and, most importantly, warmth.

Any insights from folks with experience in A.T. approaches to ice climbs would be great.

Thanks,
Rick

Assuming you only haul a follower's pack and one belay parka between the two of you, why not wrap the liners in a puffy and pack that gets left at the base? Throw chemical warmers in if you want and hide your shells to keep snow out.

Edit: I always bring an extra pair of dry socks on tours so I'd probably do that as well in this case. Keep them in the pockets of your belay puffy to keep them warm and dry.

Haven't done this but that would be my first thought.

Go to a professional Ski Boot fitter.

Do not try to go this alone or you will be sorry in the end with blisters, bone spurs and frostbite.

Talk to them about your needs and desires and they will put you in the right brand and model. No two ski boots are alike just like everyone's foot is unique.

Also throw out the stock liners that come with the boot. They are crap. (Unless you end up in a SCARPA Boot - SCARPA comes with Intuition Liners) Personally as a Ski Patroller my favorite brand of boot liners are Intuition liners. In my opinion they are the warmest boot liners you can get. Your boot fitter may have other ideas but Intution is my preference for 150+ days of skiing per year.

You will also desire to get new foot beds for the boots. ALL boot manufacturers put crappy stock foot beds in their boots. They are garbage and your feet will hate you. Your ski boot fitter will be able to make you custom foot beds that will contour to foot like a dream. If you choose not to go with a custom foot bed, even going with the option of Super Feet insoles or other comparable brands will work.

STAY AWAY FROM CHEMICAL HEATERS AND SKI BOOTS. PERIOD END OF STORY.

Ski boots are designed to fit snugly and custom liners will fit every detail of your foot perfectly. Trying to squeeze even a tiny heat pack into your boot will destroy the fit and give you an extremely uncomfortable fit and you won't even feel the heat. Those packs need oxygen to work and there is very little to no oxygen or flow in a ski boot.

If after custom boot work your feet are still cold I would suggest Boot Heaters. Essentially battery packs that lead to heating elements under your foot bed that will work from 4-8 hours typically with the ability to buy spare battery packs.

SOCKS

Socks are very very important. Don't use thick wool mountaineering socks in your AT boots. The added space of the sock will allow too much movement in your foot and you will rub your ankles raw on the uphill approach. Go with a THIN Ski Sock. Your boot fitter can show you options.

Pretty sure OP was suggesting heaters to keep them warm while they were not being worn, not cramming them in alongside their foot.

Don't worry about cold boots.

Bring an extra pair of dry socks. Before you put on the cold AT boots, just put on the dry socks. In a few minutes, the cold AT boots will be warm.

Kyler R wrote:Go to a professional Ski Boot fitter. Do not try to go this alone or you will be sorry in the end with blisters, bone spurs and frostbite. Talk to them about your needs and desires and they will put you in the right brand and model. No two ski boots are alike just like everyone's foot is unique. Also throw out the stock liners that come with the boot. They are crap. (Unless you end up in a SCARPA Boot - SCARPA comes with Intuition Liners) Personally as a Ski Patroller my favorite brand of boot liners are Intuition liners. In my opinion they are the warmest boot liners you can get. Your boot fitter may have other ideas but Intution is my preference for 150+ days of skiing per year. You will also desire to get new foot beds for the boots. ALL boot manufacturers put crappy stock foot beds in their boots. They are garbage and your feet will hate you. Your ski boot fitter will be able to make you custom foot beds that will contour to foot like a dream. If you choose not to go with a custom foot bed, even going with the option of Super Feet insoles or other comparable brands will work. STAY AWAY FROM CHEMICAL HEATERS AND SKI BOOTS. PERIOD END OF STORY. Ski boots are designed to fit snugly and custom liners will fit every detail of your foot perfectly. Trying to squeeze even a tiny heat pack into your boot will destroy the fit and give you an extremely uncomfortable fit and you won't even feel the heat. Those packs need oxygen to work and there is very little to no oxygen or flow in a ski boot. If after custom boot work your feet are still cold I would suggest Boot Heaters. Essentially battery packs that lead to heating elements under your foot bed that will work from 4-8 hours typically with the ability to buy spare battery packs. SOCKS Socks are very very important. Don't use thick wool mountaineering socks in your AT boots. The added space of the sock will allow too much movement in your foot and you will rub your ankles raw on the uphill approach. Go with a THIN Ski Sock. Your boot fitter can show you options.

Kyler,
I'm with ya man. Thank you. I'm wearing Scarpa Maestrales with the Intuition liner and custom foot beds.
-R

I think the electric boot warmers would be the most efficient, but also costly.

Put two chemical foot warmers in each boot, then stuff the boot with a down coat or something so the heat doesn't escape

Place a thermos with hot water in each boot when they're not worn?

When you're climbing, keep the ski boots off of the snow as much as possible, sit them on top of a puffy, foam pad, pack, whatever. Cover them so heat does not escape.

If you're going the changing socks route, keep the dry socks in your shirt as you're climbing, so that they're warm from body heat when you put them on.

The belayer puts the skiboot liners in his coat as you climb, then alternate

Bring a jetboil and heat up some hot water bottles to put in the ski boots

Ice climb in your ski boots? or ski in your ice climbing boots?

Seth Kane wrote:just climb in AT boots. They dont climb that bad on pure ice

I'll second that suggestion. Newer AT boots like the Dynafit TLT5 or 6 have great ankle flex fore & aft, and they weigh about the same as heavyweight climbing boots. They're fine for pure ice at least up to WI4+. If your feet tend to get cold then you could do as a couple of others have suggested and replace the stock liners with Intuitions. In that case you might need to get boots a size larger than normal.

The downside with AT boots is that they don't have any sideways ankle flex. As Seth mentioned that's an issue on mixed climbs. It also means they're not so good for French technique on moderate-angled slopes.

buckie06 wrote:ski in your ice climbing boots?

That's been discussed at length in these forums. It's really difficult to ski in climbing boots. Also it's hard to find bindings that work. Silvretta's out of business and most AT binding manufacturers are switching to Dynafit-style bindings.

Martin le Roux wrote: I'll second that suggestion. Newer AT boots like the Dynafit TLT5 or 6 have great ankle flex fore & aft, and they weigh about the same as heavyweight climbing boots. They're fine for pure ice at least up to WI4+. If your feet tend to get cold then you could do as a couple of others have suggested and replace the stock liners with Intuitions. In that case you might need to get boots a size larger than normal. The downside with AT boots is that they don't have any sideways ankle flex. As Seth mentioned that's an issue on mixed climbs. It also means they're not so good for French technique on moderate-angled slopes. That's been discussed at length in these forums. It's really difficult to ski in climbing boots. Also it's hard to find bindings that work. Silvretta's out of business and most AT binding manufacturers are switching to Dynafit-style bindings.

2nd that suggestion on Dynafit AT boots as ice climbing boots. You may need an extender bar for your crampons so they will fit the AT boots.

I have a pair of scarpa denali boots, I ski in them and ice climb also. They climb great, stay SUPER warm, cozy, and they are heavy so I really get good purchase on ice and they are my only ski boot. Fit any crampon and pretty much any binding. Prob not the norm, but I work at PURG and money is tight...

Thanks to all for the insight.
I'm going to try ice climbing at a local flow, if it ever gets cold, in the Scarpa A.T. boots and see how it goes before I commit to going back country with that set up. My concern is that getting through WI-1 or WI-2 approaches where French technique is utilized and pulling WI-4+ moves in A.T. boots might not be possible. I'll try it though.
There wasn't much input about carrying boots up to the ice. If I go that route I am leaning toward electric warmers like those used in ski boots.
I'll keep ya posted.
Cheers,
-R

I will also second using yer AT boots for the ice. No more clunky than old school plastic boots. Plenty of WI5 routes were climbed in those boots. I have actually used my tele boots for ice. For those who want to use tele boots some of the mfg like Petzl make a tele toe binding for their crampons:

they can be hard to find in the states, I got a set in Cham a few years ago. Certainly worth it.

As for keeping yer boots warm while not using them (if you go that route). To be honest I would not fuck around with any of the crap like warmers, water bottles, etc. they will probably crap out before you get back to the base. Just take a stove and a gas cartridge. Fire that sucker up and within a few minutes they will get warmed up enough for the trek out. On long backcountry day climbs and tours I usually carry a stove and a small pot anyways.

Seth Kane wrote:just climb in AT boots. They dont climb that bad on pure ice (harder mixed ya probably bring other boots), and it'll save you a lot of weight on the approach and a lot of hassle/potential cold feet switching boots.

this.

Throw away those skis and learn to snowboard. I've worn Nepals splitboarding and they work great!

Bill Kirby wrote: Throw away those skis and learn to snowboard.

Choke yourself!

I agree! Splitty's are sweet. And work really well with mtneering boots.