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alpine self belay and reverso/guide

Original Post
Braden Downey · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 110

I've had a hard time refining my search through the forums, so feel free to tell me I missed a forum that will help me out.

I'm looking for a technique for self belay while leading that meets these qualifications:
1. does not involve cutting my rope in case of a fall (cynched-down clove hitch)
2. utilizes minimum amount of gear
3. works with skinny ropes is big bonus (8.5 half rope) or doubled over twins.

Also, what's wrong with simply attaching a reverso/guide to your belay loop in plaquette mode (such as when you belay a 2nd up) other than risking cross loading your lockers and that it's probably not recommended by the manufacturer? Has anyone explored this idea before?

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
rope solo

dirtbag wrote: 1. does not involve cutting my rope in case of a fall (cynched-down clove hitch)
Can you explain why you think a clove hitch will cut your rope? While it is certainly true that the knot reduces the rope's breaking strength, the figure 8 reduces it substantially as well, so I'm struggling to understand this one.
Kevin Landolt · · Fort Collins, Wyoming · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 585

Yeah, I was under the impression that a clove hitch was the most bomber form of self-belay, just a pain in the ass. What do you think Jim Beyer used all those years ago?

Braden Downey · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 110
Chris Drover wrote: rope solo Can you explain why you think a clove hitch will cut your rope? While it is certainly true that the knot reduces the rope's breaking strength, the figure 8 reduces it substantially as well, so I'm struggling to understand this one.
I've read a couple accounts where the clove hitch was so cinched-down that it was impossible to remove from the locker (the climber had to cut the clove off). Although I haven't fallen on a clove myself, I don't find this hard to believe... i used a clove on a hammock swing and those forces were enough to make it nearly impossible to remove from the carabiner.

In short, I'm under the impression that a clove on opposed lockers is a bomber form of self belay in an emergency situation, or when a fall is very unlikely. Those who know better, please correct me.
mucci · · sf ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 655

Use two lockers reversed for the clove hitch.

Simple, no extra gear, and the clove has been proven over decades as a safe manner to solo lead.

Braden Downey · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 110

Again, I'm very interested to hear any thoughts/experiences w/ using the plaquette device in auto-belay mode... very unconventional and likely dismissed... although if it could work, it would require no extra gear and would facilitate quick jugging as well.
?

Kevin Cossel · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 35

You may not have seen this on the link that Chris posted, but here is what you are looking for:

mountainz.co.nz/content/art…

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
dirtbag wrote: I've read a couple accounts where the clove hitch was so cinched-down that it was impossible to remove from the locker (the climber had to cut the clove off).
Gotcha. I misinterpreted what you first wrote and thought you meant the rope being cut by the knot during the fall. Although I've rope-soloed on a clove hitch, I haven't fallen on it, so I can't speak to that.

My understanding with the ATC guide/reverso is that there is some risk of the device not being in the proper orientation to engage in the event of a lead fall. That being said, I do use my ATC guide to top-rope solo when re-climbing each pitch after lead soloing it, and have never had any problems.

Chris
Braden Downey · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 110
Kevin Cossel wrote:You may not have seen this on the link that Chris posted, but here is what you are looking for: mountainz.co.nz/content/art…
thanks Kevin.

Still open to thoughts and personal experiences with this and other methods.
csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

My thought and experiences are this; if you are worried about a self belay, you have probably picked something that is too hard for an alpine solo. When I solo in the alpine arena, it is with speed in mind and it is highly unusual for me to use a rope other than to get down. Protecting such climbs is a waste of time in my opinion. Now, in a pinch, I have been scared and used a clove hitch for self belay, but this has been for short sections only and I have never fallen on it. If I am soloing something that requires real belaying, I use a dedicated device (a soloist in my case). I rarely do this for alpine climbs as it is just too slow. I can imagine using a reverso, but it would be only in a pinch and not a regular practice.

Braden Downey · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 110
csproul wrote:My thought and experiences are this; if you are worried about a self belay, you have probably picked something that is too hard for an alpine solo. When I solo in the alpine arena, it is with speed in mind and it is highly unusual for me to use a rope other than to get down. Protecting such climbs is a waste of time in my opinion. Now, in a pinch, I have been scared and used a clove hitch for self belay, but this has been for short sections only and I have never fallen on it. If I am soloing something that requires real belaying, I use a dedicated device (a soloist in my case). I rarely do this for alpine climbs as it is just too slow. I can imagine using a reverso, but it would be only in a pinch and not a regular practice.
thanks for the perspective... although that's not what I was looking for, it's probably more relevant for me at this point in the game. Cheers
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

dirtbag,

I don't know if you've tried any of these methods yet, but to be honest, that's the number one easiest way to figure out how they work and what you like. Just find a safe location to do such a thing.

Lead rope soloing anywhere near my limit might be scarier for me than actual soloing (you're admitting to yourself you could fall) and man it's really slow.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Mountaineering
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