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Alpine bivy setups

Original Post
Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

I'm interested in hearing about your alpine bivy gear preferences. I'll be purchasing a new bag and I'm kind of stuck between a regular down bag (I'm pretty set on the mont-bell ul spiral down hugger) or a bag with a membrane. Seems like with the right membrane bag I could forgo the bivy all together saving a little weight and clutter. Thoughts in this? What are some good membrane bags out there? How about good bivy sacks? What rocks these days?

I'm also deciding between a 0 and a -20 bag. Any reason I wouldn't be warm enough in a 0 with bivy sack and base layers on down to zero?

Any other ideas would be awesome. Thanks a bunch.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

It will depend on where and time of year I guess but if you're going to need a -20 bag - I think you'd probably need (or certainly want) a tent. A zero bag, bivy sack, and clothes if necessary (it's a bivy-not a camp) will keep you OK down pretty darn low. I haven't used any membrane bags but I wouldn't want to trust one in a cold overnight rainstorm. A bivy in August at 12,000' in the Rockies is different than in January - plan accordingly. And getting dressed in a bivy sack sucks big time. I usually take a real light tarp on a planned bivy (I use a rope bag sized thing of ripstop) - it has proven handy.

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

Thanks for tips Chris. I do have a tarp to cut the wind and precipitation. Probably stick with to the 0 bag.

Anybody have experience with membrane style sleeping bags?

saltlick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 475

I've slept out in the open at -10F to 15F in four different bags:

Valandre Shocking Blue (non-membrane)
Western Mtneering Antelope (non-membrane)
Marmot Never Summer (non-membrane) in a BD bivy sack
Mountain Equipment Snowline SL (PU coated fabric)

The Never Summer/bivy bag experience was the wettest and worst. The bag froze solid. Not recommended. To be fair, conditions were awful - a windy blizzard on a glacier - and I should've had a real tent.

My nights in the Valandre and the WM Antelope were colder and drier, and much more comfortable. Before I bought my Antelope, I talked with Gary from WM. He recommended that I get the regular microfiber shell (rather than the Gore WS shell) unless I was planning on subjecting it to tons of abrasion. I haven't slept the Antelope in the rain, but have otherwise found that it resists plenty of tent-wall moisture and light snow.

I did not notice any real difference in performance with the coated fabric of the Snowline shell. However, I could imagine that for long trips (pressed against a drippy tent wall, night after night) the coated shell might offer a small benefit.

tl;dr - Get a membrane bag only if you're really concerned about durability, or if you're expeditioning.

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

Saltlick, thanks for the response. Very helpful.

Anybody have dry experiences with bivy sacks? I've only owned one and condensation was an issue. Any good buys out there?

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55
Don Ferris wrote:Saltlick, thanks for the response. Very helpful. Anybody have dry experiences with bivy sacks? I've only owned one and condensation was an issue. Any good buys out there?
Bivy sacks are all pretty bad when it isn't very cold - whatever body moisture you put out simply can't get out fast enough and condensation happens even if conditions are dry out unless you are cold and don't put out any moisture. If it's dry out (and supposed to stay dry) - I just put my feet into the bivy just in case and sleep in the bag uncovered. It's a bivy so you should only be talking one night or at the worst 2 nights. Some bivy sacks are better than others though - the best I have used was an old Outdoor Research model that was almost a tiny tent thing - it was also the biggest and heaviest I ever used. I use an old Climb High model still - it's anything but fancy but its a bivy sac and works fine for the occasional times I need one. For a "planned" bivy (done because of regulations etc) the big fancy type is nice but for carrying a bivy sack for the "unplanned" or emergency bivy - get the lightest thing you can find that is big enough to get into. Personally I don't carry a bivy sack for unplanned overnights - a tiny space blanket if anything.
Jeff Maurin · · Pittsburgh, PA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 40

In the different bivy sacks I have used, all have had some ice on the inside by morning on cold nights. I do the best I can to shake out the ice in the morning; has not been a problem on short trips with a non-membrane down bag.

Whichever sleeping bag and bivy sack you end up with, make sure the zippers match reasonably well. A left zip bag and a right-zip is not so good. DAMHIK.

-Jeff

Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

I've got an OR deluxe bivy, Gore-Tex upper, PU bottom, with a delrin hoop. I also carry a 6x5' ripstop tarp to cover my pack and cook under. Being on the east coast I use a synthetic summer bag due to moisture but a down bag in the fall and winter.
I've been comfy sleeping in the rain, humidity in my bivy was slightly higher than in a tent under the same conditions.
The problem with membrane bags is higher internal condensation, especially in freezing temperatures. I prefer seeing that frost accumulate on the inside of the bivy instead of inside the sleeping bag. This also brings up needed proper ventilation to prevent the moisture in your breath saturating the inside.
I've also used a VBL liner for multi-day winter trips, takes getting used to but decreases moisture accumulation, you just need a spare set of thermal underwear.

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306

If you are gonna have enough room for a tent i'd recommend one. You can use a lighter, smaller packing sleeping and its alot nicer to melt water, put on boots etc.

I've had lots of success with a single wall 2 person tent like the Direct 2, or those black diamond tents. That with a 30 degree bag works great down to 10f or so for me. 4 lb setup total, even less if you split the tent weight between two climbers. I have a really nice closed cell foam pad (warmer than ridgerest, without the grooved areas) that dosent let any cold through. Neo air x therm would be nice to save some space.

mike canter · · columbus ohio · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

my set up is simple and ive used it to pretty cold weather

western mountaineering alpinelite 20 degree(2lbs), with black diamond twilight bivy(9oz) light weight pad with r value around 3.8. i currently use a neo all season with 4.9 r value(19 ounces)and it lets me use a lighter bag the pad is very durable and packs super small. if im on an extended trip i pack down booties(9oz) increase warmth alot. and still the best is a boiling water bottle sealed well and put in bag before i sleep. i sleep in my clothes parka and all, then in morning im dressed and again the layers add alot of warmth to the "system".mark twight used a 20 degree bag on mount hunter alaska with bis "system"

Rogerlarock Mix · · Nedsterdam, Colorado · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 5

Ah yes,'Bivouac'. French for 'mistake' I believe.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Yea what Rick said . I'll add Back in the bar by 8 .

All that money spent on all that extra weight . Personally I'd rather use that money to stay in a nice comfy motel , sippin single malt and eatin steak . At the very least I could finance two maybe three more trips and still stay in a nice comfy motel, sippin single malt and eatin steak.

WM bag =600 more if you opt for gore , at the very least you'll pay 400-500 for the other brands = a well financed trip or two , sippin single malt eatin steak.
Bivy sack =150.-300 = yet a few more nights in a nice comfy motel , sippin single malt eatin steak
Bigger pack to carry all that extra shit in 150-350 = more nights in a comfy motel sippin single malt eatin steak.
Vapor barriers , extra fleece , a down jacket ect ect ect 500-600 = a couple more trips financed and you guessed it , sleeping in a motel sippin single malt and eatin steak .

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

Iceman, you make a compelling argument. I don't disagree with your idea. But, over the years, I'm more likely to remember and appreciate the nights spent in the bivy eating dehy.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Don Ferris wrote:Iceman, you make a compelling argument. I don't disagree with your idea. But, over the years, I'm more likely to remember and appreciate the nights spent in the bivy eating dehy.
Yer doing it wrong....hahaha.

But, if you must....
I have had good success with Marmot 800 fill-power down bags plus an OR Aurora bivy sack.
Has worked well in the alpine, in desert snowstorms, for wet/cold Appalachian bivys.
After this combo plus a small tarp, variations in your layering system should go the distance.
Layers, hat, gloves, belay jacket.
iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Well of course you will remember the cold wet nights spent in the latest greatest gear . If your like me you come to the realization that no matter how much money you throw at comfort the one time you need it will be the time all that fancy gear dosnt work .and believe me when I say I threw thousands in my quest of the " holy grail" of bivy comfort . Sorry I'm sick n tired of being an unpaid / un sponsored test pilot for the latest greatest load of crap .

Yes there are some great company's out there that make great gear , however the underlying theme here is weight . To stay remotely comfortable is going to cost you a weight penalty .this is something I'm not willing to put up with so I tried the light weight route and you guessed it as long as the weather holds and the templature gradient stays within the specifics for a certain product then all's well . Yet we understand that's never the case in the real world , so why bother to waste all that money on marginal gear with subpar results ? Besides waking up wet, clammy and freezing is not on my agenda for a climbing trip . Not to mention the hours spent drying all that shit out so I can repeat the process the next morning .

Yes I certainly have many memories of those nights out and there's the reason why I'm totally with the person ( I believe it was Will Gadd ) who said back in the bar by 6.

I'm older and slower now so for me it's 8pm.

And yes you guessed it , stayin in a nice hotel, sippin single malt eatin steak . I'll even add checkin out the cool picks we took of the great adventure .
Cheers

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

When I think of “bivy” two completely different things come to mind. Planned and unplanned. I’m doing the east face of Long’s this year and the rules say I can’t use a tent if I spend the night at the base – so it is technically a “bivy” but actually it’s just a camping trip with a sack instead of a tent if you want. But that doesn’t mean misery – probably not optimal conditions but depending what you are willing to carry in in your full size backpack, I can be pretty comfortable. Sure weight is a factor but it’s only a few hour hike in so a few extra pounds aren’t critical to success or failure. The weight carried on the route is different of course. Then we have the “didn’t get done in time” bivy for any number of reasons – which usually means you have almost nothing with you and it’s going to be a suffer fest until morning. These things happen – and the more you carry in case of it, the slower you will be and the more likely it is to happen. We could expand to include big snow climbs where planned (or very likely) bivies demand superlight systems to “survive” but not be comfortable probably – sleep in the clothes etc. So first of all define what you are preparing for and buy accordingly. There is a place for the big Outdoor Research bivy with the hooped hood that is “sort of” a tent – and a place for the lightest sack you can find. Horses for courses as they say.

Don Ferris III · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 186

I'm not lookin' for 5 star hotel comfort, iceman, I'm lookin' to stay dry. With all the thousands of dollars you've spent on the latest and greatest, you've never had a bivy that will keep you dry from the outside and inside? I'm more leaning towards lightweight. Recomendations? Let me benefit from your experience so I can only drop a couple hundred.

Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

I have a North Face bivy that has two short poles that keep it off your face. There is enough of an awning that you can have the face part open during rain, assuming the wind isn't blowing towards your face.
I'm generally a skeptic as to the usefulness of goretex, so I did a test at home right after I bought it. I set it up on an unprotected deck (didn't want to get it muddy) during a big hailstorm (Arizona monsoon type). I was in it for the whole storm. Temps dropped to the 30's during the hail. 100% humidity the whole time, I'd guess.
Not only didn't it leak, I was amazed at the minimal amount of condensation. Since it was a cold storm, I guess there was enough temperature differential to drive the moisture out, and the outside must have been beading enough that there was areas of un"wetted" material. When you are just laying there, you aren't producing nearly the moisture that you are when up and walking/running/climbing, so waterproof breathable fabrics can be reasonable.
On the other hand, I've was in it during a desert dust storm, and a bunch of fine sand came in through the zipper (even though there is a zipper flap). I think snow spindrift might come in the same way if the wind was high enough.

Karl Henize · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 643

I use a light WM down bag, rated for -7C. I use the BD big wall bevy sack to keep it dry. If condemnation is an issue and it is not raining, I sleep on top of the bivy bag. I use this set up for both winter and summer. I just use clothes to adjust for the temperature difference. It was a nice set up for summer in Patagonia.

Overall, the setup works fairly well. However, I would consider getting a lighter bivy bag, with a more breathable top, when I am confident that I won't get rained on / have a tarp.

Unless you are doing really long expeditions, where you cannot dry your bag, go for down sleeping bags.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

I wish I could ! The simple fact is Nothing is going to work in every situation ! Period ! And that's what I want , I believe everyone else whishes for the same thing .

We buy this stuff and hide the fact that we made a mistake because it didn't work ! It didn't work when we needed it most , we attempt to believe what is fed to us by paid athletes and marketing hype ! Spend good money on sub par shit , who benefits from this ? Certainly not us ! And it's human nature not to admit all your mistakes .so there ya go .

Light weight is subjective , what's light for you is way too heavy for the next guy , same goes for comfort too. So where do you want to begin ? I can offer you only some what I have used and my experience with same . Your mileage may very .

Case in point , I had a Black Garbage alpine bivy , the one with three poles took it for a test run up to the boulder field on longs peak . Set it up and spent the night in it . I had seam sealed the thing two days prior and followed all directions ok , that night there was a light mist with some light hail to boot
I had the flap up and the zipper open just around my face and was getting NO weather through the opening . Well in the am I woke up to a thourghly soaked sleeping bag and a soaked iceman ! Only thing dry was my face . Now had the weather held and been clear n cold or clear and moderate then I Believe this setup would have been the mutts nuts .

I tried a Black Garbage first light tent with even more disastrous results on a summer outing .

My quest took me To OR a good company and there bivys are lighter btw , but again unless conditions are perfect then same old same old . I would have been better off with a tarp or a jungle hammock if I had a place to hang one .

I then decided on a Bibbler single wall tent and again if conditions are perfect then it's a perfect tent .

After suffering with the single walls , being an unpaid test pilot , I chose to go with the hiliberg namaj 3 . This is a fantastic tent for everything except for two small downers , first its huge and you need plenty of room to set it up , second its heavy ! But short of motel living this is the bomb . But like I've said one mans weight is another's light weight . Subjective .

I have owned three models of western mountaineering bags , the first and one I use for everything now is the standard 10 deg bag . I've also had the - 10 and -25 degree bags both gore tex ,As has been stated add or subtract clothes as needed . Skip the gore tex , and skip the liner unless your going someplace very very high and very very cold and even then be prepared to spend an inordinate amount of time drying things out . You will also have the weight penalty and a bag that is pretty much useless for anything except very very high adventures .

Adding things like a tarp , clothes , ect adds weight and perhaps a bigger pack ? Again what are you willing to drag up the next great adventure ? Here's an idea , load up your pack with all the crap you think you'll need for that next great trip , then go take a hike in the mountains with everything and if after 15 or so miles of serious uphill down hill travel with some climbing to boot and perhaps a night or two out you haven't thrown half that junk out your quest is over .

I can go on and on and on and on. Stating different gear by different manufactures , but why ? I started this as a spoof on light weight gear and how my old ass is not in the least bit interested in suffering unnecessarily . Light is not always right for every situation , believe me been there done that don't like it , waking up semi dry cold and having to face yet another day of the same is nor will it ever be a good adventure to me , if that's your idea of fun then by all means go get some !

My point is what your asking is subjective !!!! You could certainly go out with a BD alpine bivy and 10 deg bag n be perfectly happy , but remember there is no such thing as a do it all set of kit . Weather does not always corporate with what the gear manufactures make .

So I now plan my trips around the closest motel and a good restaurant . A good titty bar close by is not a bad thing ether . Personally I'd rather climb some perky peaks then a cold assed mountain any day .

Cheers

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

And btw , everything's in good fun pard , so just take my rambling for what it's worth . I wish you good luck in your quest for the perfect setup .

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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