Advice needed: Best climbing destination for...

Ok this isn't your normal best place to climb during august or December topic, I have a very specific climbing destination/date question:
If you were training to be a rock guide and wanted to really hone your craft(and knock out the AMGA prereqs) and you could go anywhere in the world, where would you go? BUT here's the catch, the dates I'm looking at are from mid March to mid may. I am mostly familiar with the options in the USA(redrocks, utah, southwest in general) and am not opposed to it but I have the opportunity to basically go anywhere in the world and I was just wondering if there is some magical destination that will be in prime season. Target routes would be grade III and IV traditional routes from 5.9-5.11-. I would have access to a vehicle and would be mobile to travel to other nearby destinations(example: I could freely roam around Europe or SW USA). Thoughts? Any responses much appreciated!

March to May... anywhere in the world... magical...

I think Arapiles (Australia) would fit these criteria perfectly. The Grampians is also nearby if you have access to a vehicle.

The fun of global travel and climbing aside...

Specificity matters.

The exam is done in Red Rock, and by all accounts isn't easy. Familiarity with the area will be a huge help. It meets all your criteria and March-May is a really good season (but stupid windy a lot of the time).

Seems to me that Red Rock would be the obvious choice, no?

Red Rocks does seem like an obvious choice and I completely understand your point but I personally did not enjoy Red Rocks during my(admittedly short) visit. I will have 2 months and I don't want to spend them in one place either. I am American and will have plenty of time to visit US destinations down the road and since I have the opportunity, I am looking to take advantage of climbing abroad. Also, I believe they do the exam in places other than Red Rocks no? But anyway, SW US is on my radar but I am just trying to explore what options I have abroad as I am not familiar with much of the climbing world outside of the US.

I was definitely considering Australia. Do you have any more information like what the weather might be like around those times?

Thank you guys for your responses!

NateC wrote: Specificity matters. Seems to me that Red Rock would be the obvious choice, no?

This seems true. More generally, if you want to climb a large volume of multipitch trad climbs to get your systems dialed, there is no place better than the SW US. While you would certainly have a blast in a place like Arapiles, the lack of long routes could be an issue based on your goals. The Verdon would be a great trip too, but again it is not quite so specific to your goals (not the same sort of trad/crack climbing).

There would be many good options in the Alps and in Norway for this style of multipitch trad climbing, but those areas are best in high-summer; I would not go in spring.

What about that sandstone crack climbing area in China? It looks like Zion.

Given that time frame, a Utah -> Vegas -> Yosemite trip would be fantastic. Start the trip with a week or two of crack cragging in the Creek in March, then go do some towers, Zion in early April, mid-April in Red Rocks (climb the shady routes at that time of year...), then finish out the trip in the Valley. After that circuit, you would be quite dialed on most styles of multipitch trad climbs.

JCM, your suggestion is almost exactly what I was thinking and is high on the list. I guess its time to just start deciding whether I want more of a global travel experience or more focused on dialing my systems here in the US. I still would like to hear about more destinations abroad. One of my good friends just came back from Li Ming, the place in China you are referring to; I've been meaning to try and find out more about that place. The only downside about traveling to a place like that is logistically as far as communication. I can BS my way through Spanish and most European languages but if I was to walk into a Chinese grocery store I would be incredibly lost. Unfortunately 2 months is not a long time and the learning curve would be incredibly steep and potentially prohibitive to the goals of the trip....Keep the ideas coming!

Thomas Gilmore wrote:Red Rocks does seem like an obvious choice and I completely understand your point but I personally did not enjoy Red Rocks during my(admittedly short) visit. I will have 2 months and I don't want to spend them in one place either. I am American and will have plenty of time to visit US destinations down the road and since I have the opportunity, I am looking to take advantage of climbing abroad. Also, I believe they do the exam in places other than Red Rocks no? But anyway, SW US is on my radar but I am just trying to explore what options I have abroad as I am not familiar with much of the climbing world outside of the US. I was definitely considering Australia. Do you have any more information like what the weather might be like around those times? Thank you guys for your responses!

I hear you loud and clear.

FWIW- I checked the schedule to see where exams are being held and all for 2016 are in Red Rock. I remembered from my time living there that the exam was always held there.

I'm bummed that you didn't have a good time there. If I can help you out with route selection for your next trip or your rock guide exam let me know.

With 2 months off I would also not stay in the US (you can enjoy any US crag with a week off...2 months is a special treat, at least for me). Some ideas...
Valle Cochamo in Chile might still be good at the start of your window (not sure though, might be too late; was there in late Feb.) - long routes on granite.
Morocco - Taghia Gorge sound like a good late spring venue but I have not been there. Limestone. Other venues in Morocco?
Wadi Rum Jordan would probably be ideal in March (weather was bit on/off in Feb) - long routes on sandstone.
Some places in China would probably be great in the spring.
Southern Europe, esp. coastal stuff around the Mediterranean.

Arapiles in Australia is still too hot in March. That's the heat of summer. It's possible to chase the shade, but it's really not a March destination. It may not be easy to find partners. Also, very few routes Grade IV (maybe none?) It wouldn't be an ideal place to practice for your exam.

Wadi Rum in Jordan could be a great option. Endless sandstone walls, most of them taller than 1000'. Once you get through the classics, be prepared to do first ascents on some scary choss. There is some good limestone sport climbing in Israel as well, just a 6 hour journey away if you want to stay strong. Ein Prat and Gita are the two major climbing areas there. Better food in Israel too... Jordanian cuisine (outside of the major cities) is pretty lackluster and surprisingly expensive. Their dinar is stronger than the dollar. March can be VERY rainy in Jordan though.

If you were taking a climbing trip for the sake of taking a climbing trip, there would be a ton of options and suggestions. If the goal of the trip is to train for the AMGA exam though.... I'd stay local.

Nate, I will be going back sooner or later and I will try to reach out to you before I do..

RPC, I like your suggestions and its funny the places you mentioned as I am currently in Spain, will be going to Taghia Gorge at the beginning of November for 6 weeks then hitting Frey and Cochamo for 6 weeks at the beginning of January. I may stay in South America until the end of February (potentially back to Cochamo and or Frey) and then I have this 2 month block from mid March to mid May. I like the idea of hitting the Mediterranean but I have been climbing with a guide whose home base is the Dolomites and he was suggesting that the Mediterranean may not quite be in season by then. Sounds like mid April to mid June is the magic time frame for quite a few places. Maybe I will just have to compromise with some weather at the beginning of the trip?

Ideas so far:
-SW US; Utah->RR->Cali
-Australia
-South America; Frey/cochamo OR Northern Andes?
-Mediterranean
-China(need to research but avoiding based on logistics/language barrier:may be better suited as a personal trip)
-Jordan(need to research but I am a big fan of sandstone)

If anyone has any names that I could google of specific destinations of the above ideas (aside from US) or links to the popular destinations would be much appreciated.

In my opinion, since it seems you'll be taking a test in red rocks, you should practice there. If you didn't love it and had a bad time, that is even more reason to go there to practice. I'd hate to take a test in a place I didn't like. You should go to red rocks and master it. Learn to love it. Take your discomfort and turn it into something positive and heart warming. By familiarizing yourself with the place, you'll be happier in the test and be more likely to succeed.
My knowledge on the matter is slim but I know this way of thinking is a great way to overcome obstacles. Good luck with everything.

Jon H wrote: If the goal of the trip is to train for the AMGA exam though.... I'd stay local.

I am "training" for the exam but I haven't even taken the RGC yet. I will be taking my WFR next month which is a prereq I don't have to even be able to apply for the RGC. Hopefully I will be able to get in on a RGC by the end of next year. I pretty much have 80% of the climbing oriented prereqs already, just looking to finish it out and really get dialed on rope systems all while having fun and exploring the world...

JoeGaribay wrote:In my opinion, since it seems you'll be taking a test in red rocks, you should practice there. If you didn't love it and had a bad time, that is even more reason to go there to practice. I'd hate to take a test in a place I didn't like. You should go to red rocks and master it. Learn to love it. Take your discomfort and turn it into something positive and heart warming. By familiarizing yourself with the place, you'll be happier in the test and be more likely to succeed. My knowledge on the matter is slim but I know this way of thinking is a great way to overcome obstacles. Good luck with everything.

Joe, I loved the rock there, just didn't enjoy the atmosphere: Vegas, campground, the circle, curfews...I totally understand what you are saying and I think it is great advice although I am still in the beginning phase of my AMGA journey and when it comes to the Aspirant Exam and Rock Exam I will most definitely be spending extra time there prior to the exams to get super comfortable. For now, its more about ticking the prereqs, getting rope systems dialed, and having fun...

Jon, thanks for the specific details of those places, that is exactly the info I am looking for!

Thomas Gilmore wrote: Spain...Taghia Gorge...Frey and Cochamo

With an itinerary like that, the calculation changes somewhat regarding the March-May timeframe. A few thoughts:

- If you have a good thing going with the international travel, then keep doing it. Domestic travel can always happen later, with shorter time periods.

- Unless, of course, you are by then getting tired of being international and are ready to be back in the States for a while.

- I don't think you neccesarily need to emphasize long routes during that time period- your itinerary leading up to there will give lots of opprotunities to climb Grade III-IVs and dial in your rope systems. Two months in Frey and Cochamo should give you plenty of time to climb big granite routes. Actually, after that much time climbing long routes, you might be ready to go cragging for a while and work on climbing harder stuff in a more relaxed setting.

With this in mind, here are two interesting possibilties:

New Zealand/Australia: Arapiles in austral autumn would be awesome,and it would let you work on climbing harder gear routes. You could spend a month climbing in NZ while waiting for cooler weather in Australia. Tasmania could be another, more adventurous option.

France: Show up in mid-March and spend the early spring taking a break from long routes, by sport climbing at low elevation sunny crags like Buoux. Once it warms up a bit, spend a bunch of time in the Verdon climbing long routes.

Val Masino in northern Italy fits your criteria, and unless it's a huge snow year should be in perfect shape.
Conveniently 2 hours from Milan as well., the place is incredible.

Beta
Val Masino is comprised of three small valleys: Val di Mello, Valle di Preda Rossa, and Valle dei Bagni. All three offer an array of activities for climbers, boulderers, hikers, and alpinists. There are an estimated 2,000 boulder problems, 400 shorter climbs, 100 multi-pitch routes in the valleys, 50 bigwall routes (including free climbs up to 5.13b), and 300 alpine rock routes (trad and modern) on the higher peaks.

climbing.com/route/la-valle/

The latter portion of your timeframe puts you into late fall for southern hemisphere locations…we climbed some in Namibia Memorial-Day timeframe & it was perfect. South Africa, maybe Brazil could be entering their primo (dry) seasons perhaps? Sounds like one hell of a great year.

Jon H wrote:Arapiles in Australia is still too hot in March. That's the heat of summer. It's possible to chase the shade, but it's really not a March destination.

That's correct, I totally forgot that I was in Arapiles in April. In March I was in Tasmania, and the weather was perfect for climbing. So that would be an option especially if the OP has a vehicle (we drove a van from Melbourne to Tassie by taking the ferry).

The roped climbing in New Zealand is nothing to write home about, at least that’s what I heard from all the kiwis climbing at Arapiles. I never did any roped routes in New Zealand. I went there for the bouldering at Castle Hill and Flock Hill, and it was great but not exactly what the OP is looking for.

It’s been a few years since I’ve been to Liming, but when I was there it was mostly single pitch stuff. Of course things could have changed in the last few years since the potential of that place is huge, but if we look at Liming and Arapiles only, then I think the OP will have an easier time finding multi-pitch routes and climbing partners at Arapiles.

Does the RGC/exam require you to have "mock guided" (or at least climbed) a number of Grade III and maybe IV routes? If it does (I'm out of date re. the various course requirements, but this was needed to take the RIE a while back and always posed somewhat of a hurdle for climbers in the Northeast), you'll want to work that into your plans.

Edit - I see on the AMGA site that one must lead/share lead on at least 10 Grade III routes.

Lots of good info coming out! I really appreciate all the replies. Here are some more details about what I'm doing to help narrow down the suggestions:

I learned to climb at the red river gorge and spent almost every weekend there for 2 years. After that I spent a year living in my van, climbing all major popular destinations in America(over 55,000 miles of driving in a year). I didn't spend a long time in any one area but I spent at least a week in most of the top spots from the Bugaboos to Potrero and from North Conway to Yosemite and too many places to name in between. During that time I decided that I wanted to turn climbing into a career and become a guide. I am prior military and found a guide training school approved by the Veterans Affairs so I am currently attending the rock climbing courses that the school offers. My current class is in Spain and we have been climbing limestone in the Pico de Europas and granite in La Pedriza. The next class takes place in Taghia gorge for 6 weeks which also includes WFR cert. The following class after that is 6 weeks in Chile most likely focusing on Frey and Cochamo. From there I have 5 weeks free before starting the class in question. The class takes place from middle of march to middle of may and it is basically structured as a road trip where we get to focus on taking everything we learned in the prior classes and put it to use on our own. I will be with other students so I don't have to worry about finding partners. We have influence on where we want to go as long as its within reason for the school. I have a decent amount of experience in the US and as mentioned before I want to take advantage of traveling abroad as I do not know when I will have this opportunity again after I finish my schooling. The school has done this particular class before as red rocks->utah and are currently doing one from the UK into Europe.

As far as the AMGA goes, I have all the prereqs to take the RGC except WFR but because of commitments with the school and the timing of the RGC courses, I will not have the opportunity to attend one until at least the middle of next year. So the idea is just to take advantage of all the opportunities I have and make the most of everything I am doing.

For those curious here are the prereqs for the Rock Guide Course:

Current AMGA member
Completion of a CPR and WFR Course (minimum 80 hours) or higher certification
Five years personal rock climbing experience
Confidence leading traditional and sport routes up to 5.9, at the time of the course
Familiar with basic knots, including: figure 8, bowline, clove hitch, munter hitch, mule hitch, prusik, flat overhand, double fisherman's and klemheist
Familiar with multiple types of mechanical and non-mechanical belay devices
Familiar with a variety of rappel devices on multi-pitch rappels
Familiar with LNT Practices
You have led 10 traditional climbs rated 5.10a or harder on various rock types (single or multi-pitch)
You have led or shared lead on 50 multi-pitch routes (10 of which are Grade III or longer)
Format:
The RGC includes indoor and outdoor classroom time, practice sessions, and climbing on a variety of rock routes. Recreational climbing skills and judgment are screened as part of the daily activities. The course is designed to introduce some of the recommended methods common to rock guiding through sessions and practical application.

and here is an overview of the whole Rock Guide Program: amga.com/rock-guide/

South Africa/Namibia would be good. Table Mountain outside of Cape Town has great routes - the climbing is like the Gunks, but much longer routes, not many climbers there, and sea views. There is some fun adventurous granite dome climbing in the Drakensburg mountains near Nelspruit, and sport reminiscent of bolted Eldorado Canyon at Watervall Boven. I haven't climbed in Namibia, but I sure would like to.