Adding/moving bolts at Stone Mountain NC

I wanted to start a discussion about adding/moving bolts on certain routes at Stone Mountain. Let me preface this by saying that I usually don't approve of adding or moving bolts in a way that changes the original character of a route. That being said I know of one instance where a bolt was added to a route at Stone and another where one was moved. In the first case on Strawberry Preserves the bolt was added to preserve the original character of the route. The first ascent party slung a tree branch down low but since the tree is no longer there a bolt was added to replace it. Without it the route would be R/X and would hardly ever get done. On Fleet Feet the first bolt was moved up a couple of feet. I'm not sure exactly why this was done but it might be safety related because the original bolt was placed in a flake. This changed the character of the route a bit since the previous clip came from a good stance and was easy even for short climbers. The higher bolt requires one to do a move in order to make the clip and is probably tougher for shorter folks. One can protect the clip with some small gear in the flake though so it's not desperate by any means.

So two cases so far and yes there there is a third potential case that I've been thinking about. According to the Lambert-Shull guide the first pitch of Orange Blossom Special was originally protected by slinging a tree branch that leaned against the face. That pitch is a 5.10x solo now since the tree is no longer there. It's not a popular route these days (it probably never was since even with the tree it was hard and runout) but I don't know of anyone who has led it since the tree died. Adding a bolt to that pitch would be similar to what was done on Strawberry Preserves to bring the route back to it's original character.

Emil Briggs wrote:.

contact the FA'ers...if not leave I would leave it alone. If the FA'ers cant be contact ask Jeep Gaskin, Buddy Price etc... their opinion and heed it.

We have to put a bolt next to the river crossing on the Pulpit! Hah, just did that this weekend, definitely a pretty committing move. Love the climbing there though. I read about Strawberry in the guidebook, and what you are proposing makes sense, but definitely get permission first.

Not sure if you have already posted this on the Carolina Climbers Coalition message board, but if not, I think it would get proper attention quickly. Being in a park, I'm sure there are regulations or procedures to be followed as well as FA permission.

I sent an email to Kenny Hibbits who was a member of the FA party asking his opinion on the matter so we'll see what he says.

While I feel that having the permission of the FA'ers is mandatory knowing what the community thinks is important too. If memory serves a member of the FA party added some bolts to a route at Looking Glass some years back and someone else wound up chopping them.

Dana Bartlett wrote:Not to say a bolt should or should not be added - that's none of my business. But we did the first pitch of Orange Blossom special after the tree died. And we were not great climbers.

Perhaps not a great climber but you're certainly a rare climber. I've been to Stone a lot but I've never seen anyone leading Orange Blossom Special. Not to say it doesn't happen just that its rather uncommon.

The answer to rebolting at Stone is to not rebolt at Stone.

My opinion is climb it the way it is now, or don't climb it. No matter what, don't add bolts.

The CCC manages the fixed gear and interacts with the park service to keep the all the bolts "safe." The park service is against new routes / additional bolts. It is in their land-use policy for Stone Mountain. I see no reason to add bolts where the land manager doesn't want them.

Scott O wrote:The answer to rebolting at Stone is to not rebolt at Stone.

I'm going to assume that you meant to say retrobolting not rebolting. Almost every climb at Stone has been rebolted. Most of them about 15 years ago and a few that were missed then that were done more recently. I don't know anyone who objected to it.

It's true that clipping those manky bolts back in the 90's added some excitement to certain routes that's gone now. Nothing like being way runout on a rusted through quarter incher that may or may not hold to make 5.10 slab even more exciting. But people didn't object to the rebolting then since it was restoring the routes to their original state when presumably the bolts were still good. Which is the point behind my thoughts regarding Orange Blossom Special.

No, unless the FA team concedes and I personally hope they don't. If you are leading 10s up there then the 1st pitch is pretty routine. Doing it in its current condition preps you nicely for the hard moves and spinely sections on the second. May I suggest The Purring--great and well protected 10.

I didn't even finish reading your post! NO! You don't fucking add or move shit at stone mountain! Just because you have a scarefest doesn't mean there need to be more bolts. Those routes were put up from the fucking ground by bad ass mother fuckers and Thor put up father knows best and drilled for a fucking HOUR before giving up and using the drill his father recommended to finish the job. Thor even suffered a ground fall and had to get carried out by the rangers and the mailman. It's simply part of the ethics at stone not to move or change anything, period. Welcome to North Carolina!

If you drill, I will kill.

Meme Guy wrote:I didn't even finish reading your post! NO! You don't fucking add or move shit at stone mountain! Just because you have a scarefest doesn't mean there need to be more bolts. Those routes were put up from the fucking ground by bad ass mother fuckers and Thor put up father knows best and drilled for a fucking HOUR before giving up and using the drill his father recommended to finish the job. Thor even suffered a ground fall and had to get carried out by the rangers and the mailman. It's simply part of the ethics at stone not to move or change anything, period. Welcome to North Carolina!

Chill out guy. I've led some of Thor's routes like Captain Crunch and I have a great deal of respect for what he accomplished. I also climbed with one of the members of the FA party on Orange Blossom Special back in the 90's and would never make a change to the route against his wishes. But if you had bothered to finish reading the post you would have noticed that the route has changed. The tree that protected the first pitch died so it's a solo now but it wasn't then.

Emil Briggs wrote: Perhaps not a great climber but you're certainly a rare climber. I've been to Stone a lot but I've never seen anyone leading Orange Blossom Special. Not to say it doesn't happen just that its rather uncommon.

Maybe not everything should be common.

Yeh I read your post after I posted and stand by my post. If I had it my way I'd chop all those fucking bolts so that gumbies would stop showing up at stone.

Stephen Scoff wrote:No, unless the FA team concedes and I personally hope they don't. If you are leading 10s up there then the 1st pitch is pretty routine. Doing it in its current condition preps you nicely for the hard moves and spinely sections on the second. May I suggest The Purring--great and well protected 10.

Thanks for keeping the tone reasonable Stephen. I appreciate that and understand that I absolutely would not go against the wishes of the FA team. I'm quite aware of what it takes to lead 11's at Stone having done some of them already. That's not what I was getting at here. Since the precedent of replacing a dead tree with a bolt was already set on Strawberry Preserves I wanted to solicit opinions as to whether or not it was acceptable on OBS given that the exact same scenario applies.

What about drilling a big ass pipe hole like Ottos Route and sticking a big ass branch in it for slinging? It would maintain the original character and when it breaks it could be easily replaced.

Meme Guy wrote:Yeh I read your post after I posted and stand by my post. If I had it my way I'd chop all those fucking bolts so that gumbies would stop showing up at stone.

Since the gumbies all go up The Arch which is a gear line you wouldn't accomplish much. But if you actually climbed there you should know that.

I've climbed there plenty. I live 10 minutes from the park entrance, dohhh!

You wouldn't believe how many epics I've seen from these damned gumbies, given a few rescues too when they couldn't sack up and lead.

Via ferrata would be cool ;)

Meme Guy wrote:I've climbed there plenty. I live 10 minutes from the park entrance, dohhh!

My apologies then. Your comment about chopping bolts to get rid of the gumbies didn't make sense to me though given how conditions actually are at Stone with the gumbies concentrated on the few well protected gear lines. If you climb a lot there then I'm sure we've met sometime and will again in the future. Since you're anonymous and I'm not I can't introduce myself if we do meet but please feel free to do so on your part. I'm a pretty laid back sort of climber and enjoy talking with others even if we don't agree about everything.

As far as my idea I don't see it going anywhere now. I may or may not lead OBS in it's current state. But adding a bolt to replace the tree is not worth it if it creates too much dissension. I'm curious though as to why the different treatment of OBS and Strawberry Preserves. The situations would seem to be exactly the same. Of course tradition matters too. It may be that OBS has been a solo route for long enough now that's how the community views it even if it didn't start out that way.