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Abuse at JTree...Access Issues...
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By Tradoholic
Sep 17, 2012

From R&I:
www.rockandice.com/news/2237-egregious-wilderness-climbing-v>>>


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By CJC
Sep 17, 2012

the decision was made to: 1) Use the incident to educate climbers about proper wilderness ethics; 2) Evaluate the illegally established routes under the Park’s permit application protocol; and, 3) Only remove those routes that would not have been granted a permit

wow so fuck the permitting process huh

real great 'vision' of route development here...anyone know who's responsible for this crap?


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By handon broward
From Rochester, NY / Aspen, CO
Sep 17, 2012
Elk Range, CO

My favorite part is the comment by Bolting Man at the bottom. Seems like the kind of assgole who throws trash out his car window and declares "its a free country I can do what I want!"


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By Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Sep 17, 2012
Russ

try some of this:

www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1772094/Joshua-Tree-Ethics

500+ plus posts on the subject

Starts heating up around here as to the "suspected" perps:
www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1772094&tn=34>>>


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By J Q
Sep 17, 2012
Me again!

It's interesting to note that while the bolters actions were indeed illegal, it took a climber to bust the offending party, simply because no one else has the wherewithal to do so.


Additionally:

The steps seems to have been there for a while according to the locals.

Very few holds are manufactured but to decry them all as such makes great sensationalism.

Seems like the most visibly destructive things these guys did is try to burn the vegetation that doesn't really burn and leave a fixed rope to jug.



Basically, we are truly our own worst enemies in many senses of the term. However, one persons shit is another persons picasso. The good news is, it looks like this is being handled in a positive way, how fucking bizarre!


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By Josh Olson
From madison, wisconsin
Sep 17, 2012
Looking at a 5.7 crack with Nick

Rangers climb too, and how would you suggest this get dealt with by climbers alone? This isn't just a little offense or small misdeed, and I don't these folks would listen if a more sensible voice tried to talk sense into them. Would you prefer this a live and let live kind of arrangement?


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By Tradoholic
Sep 17, 2012

Regardless of your opinion on how routes shall be established JT seems to have clear rules as to how it is to be done in the park. Ignoring these rules endanger access for all. Sad story.


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By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Sep 17, 2012
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Kali. Alabama Hills, CA.

I always chuckle when the term WILDERNESS is applied to any JT argument....

FYI... The WILDERNESS starts 100 feet from the pavement.

The BS that went on, is old, it did take a snitch to point it out to the TOOLS.

I in NO WAY think that chipping is OK ever, but the NPS is going way over the top on this one. IMHO

And don't get me started on the whole bolting permit deal.


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By J Q
Sep 18, 2012
Me again!

S.P.L.T. Image wrote:
Regardless of your opinion on how routes shall be established JT seems to have clear rules as to how it is to be done in the park. Ignoring these rules endanger access for all. Sad story.



Oh I am sorry, did someone give you their opinion on how routes should be established at J tree, or are you just talking shit like usual?


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By Tradoholic
Sep 19, 2012

Try not to get your panties in a bunch JQ. The point is that there's rules to follow in JT and these people didn't follow them. To blame a climber snitch and to claim the ILLEGAL behavior wouldn't have been found without a concerned citizen bringing to the attention of the NPS is nothing but misinformed and cowardly.

If you want to change the rules in JT then you need to follow protocol. Bitching that the NPS sucks or whatever isn't helpful and certainly won't change anything.


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By Guy Keesee
From Moorpark, CA
Sep 19, 2012
Big Boulder, just a bit downhill from Temple of Kali. Alabama Hills, CA.

I am glad I was able to enjoy jt back before the NPS took over. The golden age I figure.

To see the Park Service getting all puffed up about stuff that was done in the past is sort of amusing.

The Park Service has done a lot of bogus stuff and broken thier rules many many times.

I wish they would get to work on REAL ISSUES that effect all users, primarily, CAMPING or the lack of camping.

They have removed campsites in a systemitic manner and the only fix that is proposed is to buy "Camp Ground Full" signs and post em up.

Pretty sad.


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By Fat Dad
From Los Angeles, CA
Sep 19, 2012

I agree with Guyzo that the Park Service has messed up with park/monument/whatever pretty good in the name of assisting the public to enjoy the park. Paving roads, making huge parking lots, etc. Their impact far exceeds any issues us climbers might create.

Having said that, climbers have been and should continue to be responsible stewards of the park. I first went out to Josh when I was 14 (34 yrs. ago) and so was able to enjoy that golden age that Guyzo speaks of. It was awesome. Just climbers, some retirees camping and bored Marines from the nearby base. You could pull in on a Friday night and find a spot in Hidden Valley. However, those days are gone. Plus, the climbers back then respected the place and the rock. They didn't pull any of the shenanigans the Park Service is complaining about now, nor would they have tolerated anyone who did.

The Park Service may be tools, but that doesn't give us climbers an excuse to damage a place we profess to love.


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By Fluoride
From Los Angeles, CA
Sep 20, 2012
Galen's Crack.  Tuolumne.  Hell yes!

This has been an issue on ST for the last year. But now it's been revealed where this happened. I talked to rangers last season when this issue came to light and they seem to know who the offenders are.


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By Geir
From Tucson, AZ
Sep 20, 2012
Toofast

Fluoride wrote:
This has been an issue on ST for the last year. But now it's been revealed where this happened. I talked to rangers last season when this issue came to light and they seem to know who the offenders are.


That would be great. Chiseling is so freaking lame, I hope the people who did this are dealt with firmly.


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