Mountain Project Logo

4-Person Multi-Pitch Trad Climb with 3 First Timers

Original Post
Tan the Man · · SLC, UT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,361

My friend wants to take me and a couple other friends to climb an easy desert tower route (5.8+ to 5.9-) with four pitches. The two bottom pitches don't have any bolts on them, and my buddy says he has all the pro we need to climb the tower. One issue with the excursion is that he is the only one with a rack. The even bigger issue is he wants to haul up three people with absolutely no trad climbing experience.

Am I right to think attempting the ascent this way is a bad idea? My buddy's really stoked for the climb, and he insists it's easy climbing, so I don't want to ruin his fun by pansying out if doing the climb really isn't as big a deal as I'm making it out to be.

If this is not an inherently bad idea, I have another question about how he plans to do it. He wants to do two teams of two. He will lead and place the pro, then belay his partner up. I then am supposed to lead through the already placed pro a la sport climbing then belay my partner up. I don't think this is a great idea because (1) I get the feeling the pro might get moved or dislodged as the 2nd climber disconnects from it on the way up, leaving me with pro that may only be offering a false hope of protection as I lead through it, and (2) I've never climbed trad before!

Like I said, I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea all around, but I will feel less stupid telling my friend I'm uncomfortable with it if some experienced trad climbers back me up and tell me this is a bad idea. If I'm just being a pansy, feel free to tell me that as well haha.

Jason Wong · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 10

It's a really bad idea. Not only for the reasons you mention, but what happens if he gets injured past the first pitch? While that may seem unlikely, if it did happen, you have very few outs f nobody can place gear or build an anchor.

Don't do it.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Yeah, really bad idea. No trad experience? Does that also mean very limited climbing experience and no multi pitch experience? Everyone involved is going to have a better time if it is just a group of three or just two at a time. Get everyone on the first pitch for a toprope and that should be a fun outing in itself.

Chris Nischan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

BAD IDEA

Turnbuckle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 95

Sonds like you guys are going to do ottos route. It also sounds like your friend is flying by the seat of his pants a little. Desert towers are the real deal and not the best place to have three novice climbers. Although with the right person in charge it's totally doable. Not a good idea to leave any gear unattended like you said it could pop or just get over looked. There is plenary of ways to do it safely however a desert tower is not the best place to learn. If he plans on the north chimmeney of castleton. I would not recommend that. Climbing a tower is earned in physical strength but more importantly knowledge on doing it safely. It sounds like you are doubting your buddies abilities or methods a little bit. Have a great time whatever you do and be safe. Remember it's going to eat up a lot of gear on anchors alone if there is two parties. And it sounds like he is going to have the first pich protected and then have to lead the second. In my opinion one rack on party. Your not being a pansy at all your using good judgment.

Rob Gordon · · Hollywood, CA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 115

I think it might be fine if the climbing was 5.6/5.7, but I'm a fairly decent climber and have had trouble on 5.9 before (not saying you would fall, but coupled with the fear and anxiety I'm sure you will have, it could be problematic).

Couldn't your buddy just set up a top rope for the second team, or maybe there is a traversing nature to the climb.... Could still be done by trailing a second rope and having the second climber tie into the middle and clip both strands into the pro as he unclips the first rope... Sounds like a hassle, but not unreasonable if everyone is competent and understands the system....

How much do you trust your buddy's skill sets and safety? I have friends that if they said we could do something I'd follow them anywhere, but there's a lot of climbers that I completely ignore when they suggest something.

I think you should just go with your buddy the two of you and follow him up the tower and use it as a learning experience.

slk · · Reno, NV · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 130

BAD.BAD.BAD.

Tan the Man · · SLC, UT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,361
Stich

Yes, I also forgot to mention that I have done very little sport climbing anyway and never any multi-pitch--just more reasons not to get ahead of myself.

Turnbuckle

You're right on with Otto's Route. I'm originally from GJ. I've been looking at the tower my whole life and thought it would be sick to stand on top of it, but I think that may still be a little way's off. I've got a lot of experience to gain before I head up.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.
Tan the Man · · SLC, UT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,361
Rob Gordon wrote:How much do you trust your buddy's skill sets and safety? I have friends that if they said we could do something I'd follow them anywhere, but there's a lot of climbers that I completely ignore when they suggest something.
I'm not really sure how much experience he has. We're old friend's meeting up for the first time in several years. We never climbed when we both lived in GJ, so I have no idea how much trad he does--prolly just one more reason to tackle something a little less epic.
Turnbuckle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 95

I think the guy above was right I have brought several people up that without much trad experience. But I fully lined them out on multi pitch first. Maybe you and your buddy do it just the two of you. The belays on that are huge and could fit four no problem but every thing else will be a pain in the ass. That is a great first tower. And you need to get up on that. The other thing is its not the best look to be fully clogging up a route with four people that aren't fully confident it will add to your stress level when there is another party climbing up your ass

Tan the Man · · SLC, UT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,361
Turnbuckle wrote:I think the guy above was right I have brought several people up that without much trad experience. But I fully lined them out on multi pitch first. Maybe you and your buddy do it just the two of you. The belays on that are huge and could fit four no problem but every thing else will be a pain in the ass. That is a great first tower. And you need to get up on that. The other thing is its not the best look to be fully clogging up a route with four people that aren't fully confident it will add to your stress level when there is another party climbing up your ass
Another good point. It hadn't even occurred to me yet that we could end up ruining someone else's ascent of the monument by clogging up the route. I'll see what my other friends feel like doing; maybe I can find time for a safer and less hectic two person ascent this weekend.
Isaac Therneau · · Rochester, MN · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 50

The "it's only 5.9 or 5.8" is how a lot of novice trad leaders get in over their heads, especially on multi-pitch. With that rack and three novices, coupled with multi-pitch, you are putting yourself in a very dangerous position.

H.. · · Washingtonville NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 45

yer gonna die...

Cocoapuffs 1000 · · Columbus, OH · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 50
Tanner Wixom wrote: I'm not really sure how much experience he has.
That clinches it - definitely don't do it.
Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Tanner, do the route with your friend and leave the other two out of it. I think you'll enjoy it a lot more without the extra complications. The final 5.9 pitch is not a gimmie. It's very exposed, too. There is also a wide crack on I think the third pitch that is awkward. I've only done the route once, but it was very fun.



TreSki and me and no third or forth wheels.

Alex Mitchell · · Boston, MA · Joined May 2012 · Points: 2,367

Led a multi-pitch trip with three semi noobs before. It was horrible, never again. In short... dont do it.

Tan the Man · · SLC, UT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 2,361
Stich wrote:Tanner, do the route with your friend and leave the other two out of it. I think you'll enjoy it a lot more without the extra complications. The final 5.9 pitch is not a gimmie. It's very exposed, too. There is also a wide crack on I think the third pitch that is awkward. I've only done the route once, but it was very fun.
Great pics haha. It sounds really fun. I looked at the pics on the route guide here on MP, and the top seems very exciting to say the least. I definitely would like to do this route; I just need to find the right opportunity.
Turnbuckle · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 95
Gunks . · · Gunks, NY · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 195

Sounds like an epic/accident waiting to happen.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Some have suggested setting up a top rope on a tower. Simply retarded!

Cor · · Sandbagging since 1989 · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 1,445

Be smart, but just go for it Tanner...

Never know until you try!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Beginning Climbers
Post a Reply to "4-Person Multi-Pitch Trad Climb with 3 First Ti…"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.