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3/8'' bolts with 1/2'' hangers
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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Jul 15, 2011
Moby dick 5.11-

Hey

Perhaps a dumb question but is it possible to use 3/8'' bolts with 1/2'' fixe hangers?

Would it cause spinners?

For some reason I have a dozen 1/2'' hangers but no big bolts to go with it.

Again, probably a dumb question but that's why I ask on the interweb before I go out and try it myself.


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By Chris Norfolk
From Fredericton, New Brunswick
Jul 15, 2011
Hello MP.

Funny that we're having this conversation here... but anyway: What's the project you've got in mind, and how many hangers do you need? I might be able to set you up with a few tonight. Cheers.


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By P. A.
Jul 15, 2011

Can you just throw some washers on?


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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Jul 15, 2011
Moby dick 5.11-

Hey Chris nothing urgent. It's just I realized I have 12 12mm hangers and only 1 12mm bolt, Ultimately I would like to use them. Most fastener shops sell bolts by the box (50) and I just need 11.

PJ: Yes I am using washers and nuts with the bolts hence why I believe it's ''possible'' to get them tight enough that they won't spin despite the larger hole in the hanger.


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By P. A.
Jul 15, 2011

Hehe yeah I figured, I just really wanted to add to the thread. I would think it would be fine. It's not like the 3/8 hangers are a snug fit on the bolt anyway.


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By 1Eric Rhicard
Jul 15, 2011
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo

As long as you are not putting them on super steep routes or straight up into a roof they should be fine with a thick washer although it is not ideal.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Jul 15, 2011
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

How about just getting some 1/2 bolts and doing it up right?


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By SexPanther aka Kiedis
Sep 9, 2011
Thumbtastic

After replacing a fair number of bolts for the ASCA I've gotta say that bad fit results in bent bolts, washers just hide the problem. We have tons of homemade hangers out here, some specific types that get fallen on regularly are notorious for getting bent. If it's twelve hangers, that's a $40 issue easily cleared up by shelling out for new hangers, or just use half-inchers, they're not exactly hard to find. One way or another they'll get used, you wouldn't put truck brakes on your Jetta, so why put in timebomb hardware and expect washers to "make it fit"? Bad idea.


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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
Sep 10, 2011

Killis Howard wrote:
After replacing a fair number of bolts for the ASCA I've gotta say that bad fit results in bent bolts, washers just hide the problem. We have tons of homemade hangers out here, some specific types that get fallen on regularly are notorious for getting bent. If it's twelve hangers, that's a $40 issue easily cleared up by shelling out for new hangers, or just use half-inchers, they're not exactly hard to find. One way or another they'll get used, you wouldn't put truck brakes on your Jetta, so why put in timebomb hardware and expect washers to "make it fit"? Bad idea.



I agree here. I have seen people do some weird stuff while bolting a route. If you are going to establish a route, hundreds or thousands of people could be climbing it and most climbers blindly put there faith in the route setter and s/he did a good job of making safe and reliable protection points ie bolts and hangers.
Just spend the $40 or $50 bucks to do the job right. I figure that an average route take a bit over $100 in hardware alone (bolts, hangers, anchors ect), that a big commitment; if it is done right than the bolts can be there years. Other wise using miss matched bolts and hangers will cause premature loosening and bent bolts; which mean that someone will have to go in and redo the shoddy work you did.


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By Carl Sherven
Sep 11, 2011

Killis Howard wrote:
After replacing a fair number of bolts for the ASCA I've gotta say that bad fit results in bent bolts, washers just hide the problem. We have tons of homemade hangers out here, some specific types that get fallen on regularly are notorious for getting bent. If it's twelve hangers, that's a $40 issue easily cleared up by shelling out for new hangers, or just use half-inchers, they're not exactly hard to find. One way or another they'll get used, you wouldn't put truck brakes on your Jetta, so why put in timebomb hardware and expect washers to "make it fit"? Bad idea.


+1 on what Killis said. If you ask any Mech. Eng. this question they will tell you to use the properly sized bolts. I've worked in the eng. department of three companies, and at none of them would we even consider using mismatched/improper fastening hardware for anything, no matter how minor the consequences of a failure may be. A failure for what you are doing can kill someone. It could be a friend, you, anyone who uses these bolts over the next several years.


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By bus driver
Sep 11, 2011

I'll give you a dozen dollars for your dozen 12mm hangers.


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By Carl Sherven
Sep 11, 2011

1Eric Rhicard wrote:
As long as you are not putting them on super steep routes or straight up into a roof they should be fine with a thick washer although it is not ideal.


No, it's not fine.

Peter Adamson wrote:
Can you just throw some washers on?


No, you can't just throw some washers on. It's will not yield the same reliability.

Peter Adamson wrote:
Hehe yeah I figured, I just really wanted to add to the thread. I would think it would be fine. It's not like the 3/8 hangers are a snug fit on the bolt anyway.


You're wrong, it's not fine. The bolts are designed to have some clearance, so you are correct that they are not a "snug fit." However, the contact area, moment arm on the washer's contact surface, deflection of the washer, clamping force as a function of torque applied to the nut, and many other things will not be the same, and will not represent what the hardware was designed and tested to withstand. A failure of this hardware can kill someone. Don't predispose it to failure by misapplying it in the name of saving some money.


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By Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Sep 11, 2011
About half way up the East Arete on Illumination Rock

i'm not an engineer.. but i am a construction contractor with over a decade of carpentry experience, including bolt and plating heavy framework- personally, i would not use ill-fitting hardware. adding a washer really just makes it more likely to loosen up, and once it loosens up, gravity will pull it off center and out of concentricity.

wont your fastener supplier exchange your bolts? any supplier i use will exchange materials, so long as they're resellable.


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By Dom
Administrator
From New Brunswick Canada
Jan 11, 2012
Moby dick 5.11-

Thanks for the answers. If it reassures anyone, I did not use these 1/2'' hangers with 3/8 '' bolts. If some of you had actually read my original post though, you wouldn't have had to give me morality lessons...


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