Route Guide - iPhone / Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New - School of Rock
Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
30 Things Rock Climbers Love.
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 2 of 3.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3   Next>   Last>>
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
By Tom-o Sapien
From World's largest trailer park
Jul 22, 2013
Conky and I confront Patrick Swayze

Jesse Newton wrote:
after tying a proper knot and dressing it, a stopper is not needed. although if u wanna tie a tail feel free. :)


It's just me then. I'm not a gumby.
I have watched this knot undress several times. Especially with newer cords.
I was taught that a simple stopper knot was extra security should the knot come undressed.

What do I know anyways?
I stopped using a figure of 8 years ago. I use the bowline.

With a stopper. :)


FLAG
By Mark Pilate
Jul 23, 2013

you're both right....skip the stopper with the 8, use one with a bowline. Its not to make the knot stronger per se, but to add stability against accidental loosening/untying...I use both (on odd/even days of the week) keeps my rope ends from developing a set.



(j/k on the second half before someone gets excited)


FLAG
By BSheriden
Jul 23, 2013

Tom-o Erectus wrote:
It's just me then. I'm not a gumby. I have watched this knot undress several times. Especially with newer cords. I was taught that a simple stopper knot was extra security should the knot come undressed. What do I know anyways? I stopped using a figure of 8 years ago. I use the bowline. With a stopper. :)


Lol so why not just tie a know that doesn't need a back up knot just for "extra security"?

I know an almost 50 year old dude, climbing 10a sport in Colorado Springs is not taking HUGE whips making his 8 impossible to untie, right?


FLAG
By Matt N
From Santa Barbara, CA
Jul 23, 2013
OTL

#infinity: bickering on MP over useless things

An eight doesn't need a stopper - its not a stopper, its a tail-keeper more-tidy-er knot. When you have extra tail (something no one on here knows about).


FLAG
By ze_dirtbag
From TBD
Jul 23, 2013
cottonmouth

so we solved the stopper knot conundrum....back to talking about crag sloots.

my #1 - me, sasha & sierra in a sweaty pile in/on/around my tent

I would love that


FLAG
By Woodchuck ATC
Jul 23, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

ze_dirtbag wrote:
so we solved the stopper knot conundrum....back to talking about crag sloots. my #1 - me, sasha & sierra in a sweaty pile in/on/around my tent I would love that



!! You've been stealing my best nighttime dreams it sounds! But in my 4 man tent, the entire floor is covered in ThermaRests from wall to wall.


FLAG
By BSheriden
Jul 23, 2013

Woodchuck ATC wrote:
!! You've been stealing my best nighttime dreams it sounds! But in my 4 man tent, the entire floor is covered in ThermaRests from wall to wall.


Thats creepy dude... They are like 18 and you are a old man.


FLAG
By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Jul 23, 2013
Tebow Climbs.  Bet you didn't know that.

Tom-o Erectus wrote:
It's just me then. I'm not a gumby. I have watched this knot undress several times. Especially with newer cords. I was taught that a simple stopper knot was extra security should the knot come undressed. What do I know anyways? I stopped using a figure of 8 years ago. I use the bowline. With a stopper. :)



I'm sorry, but as an ex-gym rat/instructor I have to giggle any time someone puts any merit behind the backup/safety/stopper/whatever you want to call that waste of a knot as a backup to the figure 8. If you properly tied and dressed, your figure 8 there isn't a backup knot in the world that will make it any better. Some stiffer, newer ropes with a slicker sheath might be a bit more difficult to dress into place, but if you're that worried about it just give it a sport/yosemite finish. Cleaner than the stopper knot, better for clipping, and it's actually functional. It's a habit I got into when I started sport climbing in the gym after watching some instructional videos, and I personally love it.

I haven't seen a properly tied figure 8 come undone on someone, but I have seen plenty of extra long tails flapping about uselessly because someone's "safety" knot came undone.

One reason I even bother to jump into the fray into this one, is because I always hated it being referred to as a safety knot. It's not, and all too often it's just lazily tied on a massive tail. Then halfway up a climb some newbie sees it coming undone and has a freak out, because "OMG the 'safety' knot came undone. In a gym this isn't all that bad, but outdoors having someone freak out halfway up a climb over something that actually won't kill them could have potential consequences. Whenever I work with new climbers, and a "safety" knot is used (I'll use it in situations where a partner or someone I'm working with isn't familiar with a yosemite finish to ease double checks)I make sure to explain to the climber that the figure 8 is keeping them safe while the stopper knot is to clean everything up.

I haven't seen a single test or bit of proof that a stopper knot is needed or even has any benefit to add to a proper figure 8. When I do, maybe I'll change my tune.

  • edit - This is the Yo-finish I am referring to.


Let the flaming begin


FLAG
By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Jul 23, 2013
Tebow Climbs.  Bet you didn't know that.

Going back to the topic at hand, number 1 on the list it's not something any of us actually LOVE is it? It's a necessary evil, but I personally HATE it.

And bootying gear should have been on there.


FLAG
By Abram Herman
From Golden, CO
Jul 23, 2013
Viking helmet cover, yep.

Boots Ylectric wrote:
This is the Yo-finish I am referring to.


When you grab an image off the internet, it's usually nice to provide attribution to the source. I know the author (me) would appreciate it. ;-)


FLAG
By ze_dirtbag
From TBD
Jul 23, 2013
cottonmouth

you sure thats a yosemite finish?


FLAG
By Ed Wright
Jul 23, 2013
Magic Ed

Back to the figure 8 knot. Are you aware that the last pass through on the 8 is redundant? The "knot" will hold just fine without it.


FLAG
By Tom-o Sapien
From World's largest trailer park
Jul 23, 2013
Conky and I confront Patrick Swayze

Ok, ya'll win.
I am a Dork :)


FLAG
By pooler
From Albany, NY
Jul 23, 2013

why does everybody tie the 8 with the tail on the right side? i'm a lefty and I tie it with the tail end on the left side, just sayin. I know I'm goonnaa die

ps if my 8 comes undone without a stopper knot I got bigger problems


FLAG
By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Jul 23, 2013
Tebow Climbs.  Bet you didn't know that.

Abram Herman wrote:
When you grab an image off the internet, it's usually nice to provide attribution to the source. I know the author (me) would appreciate it. ;-)


Sorry about that bud. I just lazily did a quick image search and grabbed the first one that looked like what I do.

Just took a look back at the site it came from, and kudos on the image goes to www.roadtoelcap.com/

Nice site.


FLAG
By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Jul 23, 2013
Tebow Climbs.  Bet you didn't know that.

Abram Herman wrote:
When you grab an image off the internet, it's usually nice to provide attribution to the source. I know the author (me) would appreciate it. ;-)


And in response to what's written on your site about the pic, it's a typical Yosemite finish. The redditor that corrected you may have been referring to an extra rap before tucking back through as found here:



alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/2008/11/figure-eight-follow-thr>>>



Good article as well.


FLAG
By pooler
From Albany, NY
Jul 23, 2013

huh, just t looked at it and I tie a backwards 8. same knot just it finishes with the tail coming out from behind the last loop instead of in front. if you turn it over it is the same knot..... awww the life of a lefty... haha


FLAG
By Abram Herman
From Golden, CO
Jul 23, 2013
Viking helmet cover, yep.

Boots Ylectric wrote:
Sorry about that bud.


No worries, I know you didn't mean anything by it. Thanks for the compliment on the site.


Boots Ylectric wrote:
And in response to what's written on your site about the pic, it's a typical Yosemite finish. The redditor that corrected you may have been referring to an extra rap before tucking back through as found here:


Yeah, that's what he was referring to. Others chimed in and I think he is actually correct—what I'm showing is just a tuck, what he shows (and the image you posted) is an actual yosemite finish.

I found their tidbit about the origin of the yosemite finish quite interesting. It came from a time before belay loops, so the loop of the knot served as the belay loop. If loaded hard enough the knot can actually flip, and the yosemite finish prevented it from flipping, which is why the tail needed to wrap around the load strand before going back into the knot. Learned something new!


FLAG
By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Jul 23, 2013
Tebow Climbs.  Bet you didn't know that.

Abram Herman wrote:
No worries, I know you didn't mean anything by it. Thanks for the compliment on the site. Yeah, that's what he was referring to. Others chimed in and I think he is actually correct—what I'm showing is just a tuck, what he shows (and the image you posted) is an actual yosemite finish. I found their tidbit about the origin of the yosemite finish quite interesting. It came from a time before belay loops, so the loop of the knot served as the belay loop. If loaded hard enough the knot can actually flip, and the yosemite finish prevented it from flipping, which is why the tail needed to wrap around the load strand before going back into the knot. Learned something new!



Haha, sounds like you and I did the same bit of researching today. When I learned of it, it really was only explained as being better for clipping. Reasoning given was that you have a clean fig. 8 close to you. You can reach down, grab the knot and follow it straight out to the correct strand to clip so that you don't Z clip. Without a stopper knot you're just that much closer to the strand you clip. At least that's how it was explained. It was in a sport climbing video. I think they actually called it a sport finish in the video too.


FLAG
By Allen Corneau
From Houston, TX
Jul 23, 2013

Boots Ylectric wrote:
... I always hated it being referred to as a safety knot.



Me too, serious pet-peeve of mine.

Call it a "stopper knot", "barrel knot", or even a "back-up knot", but don't call it a "safety knot"!


FLAG
By Woodchuck ATC
Jul 23, 2013
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

A 'keeper' knot. Beats cutting off the excess each time with a knife...tends to shorten your rope quickly.


FLAG
By teece303
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Jul 24, 2013
Aiding.

The most interesting thing about this to me is that Buzzfeed does not ask permission to use photos. I happen to follow one of the photographers on Tumblr. It was news to her that her photo had been used on Buzzfeed.


FLAG
By ian watson
From Albuquerque, NM
Jul 24, 2013

Ed Wright wrote:
Back to the figure 8 knot. Are you aware that the last pass through on the 8 is redundant? The "knot" will hold just fine without it.



X2 the knot already has a backup thats good enough for me.Clutter will do more harm then good.

On topic I like watching the weather and sky so much in the woods I am a better weather man then the highly paid weather man with all the fancy gadgets.


FLAG
By Ryan Kempf
From Boulder, CO
Jul 24, 2013
Ryan on the Sharks Fin wishing he was on Mt. Whiteny.

I was at Movement a while back and saw a girl tie in with a figure 8 and had a super long tail (like 2 feet) backed up with fishermans. @ the 2nd clip she clips the tail into the draw instead of the load bearing strand. I tell her she's not clipped in, her belayer got her down safely and all that good jaz.

The belayer teaches this girl that can barely tie a figure 8 to tie in with a bowline, so this doesn't happen again. This just happened to be a week or so after John Long fell out of a bowline and broke his leg, in a gym no less. I tell them the story about John and how a bowline can be dangerous if you don't know wtf your doing (I know she did not). So I showed them the Yosemite finish (yellow rope above not red). One of the gym employees informed me that you are NOT allowed to climb at Movement with a Yosemite finish on your 8. WTF!?

She said because it is possible to untie your knot while finishing it that way. I asked her to show me. What she did was thread the tail directly back through where it exits the knot. Now you would have to be a complete moron/drunk/stoned to pull this off. After reading this thread, and fkn around with it at home, the knot would still hold haha.

Can't wait to see that employee again lol. Cheers ya'll I'm clocking off and going climbing!


FLAG
By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Jul 24, 2013
...

"Call it a "stopper knot", "barrel knot", or even a "back-up knot", but don't call it a "safety knot"!".

"n00b knot" fits pretty well also.


FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 2 of 3.  <<First   <Prev   1  2  3   Next>   Last>>