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2014 Colorado and Marijuana
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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 19, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp wrote:
You didn't see any paranoia on the faces of those fighters in the Colorado lineups. None in Amsterdam. For sure all natural substances should be legal. Lets just fight one battle at a time. We have them on the run. Let's not scatter our forces. Take those Bast***s down.


The paranoid people are not in the line-ups... goes without saying, doesn't it?
? About your "all natural substances" stance:
Is modern weed grown in modern strains really that "natural"?
And what is the problem with a synthetic reproduction of that or analog?
Should they be any less legal? They are probably purer (or would be if legalized and lab-made not bathtub/coffee mug made).
Heroin and Coke have natural origins... LSD and MDMA are synthetic. Which would bother you more to hear your kid was using it?
DMT and 5MEO-DMT are natural in their origin as well. Should extracting them be legally superior to manufacturing them?

The whole "natural" thing kinda disturbs me, but perhaps there is a better argument than I have really heard from the pot-preachers.


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 19, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

s.price wrote:
Yes they can. I will not test my employees but have a strict no use at work policy.


You can bet that those Pot Shops have a strict Use Pot Policy. Those that are against Marijuana need not apply.

Another true life pot story:
In 1974 I was going for my 2nd interview in the Comptrollers department of the largest Public Utility in Alberta. The interviewer asked. Do your drink. I said yes and probably more than I should. Next He asked have I ever tried Pot? I said yes a couple times.

I left shaking my head. I had never been asked those questions before or since. I got the job. He wanted a drinking buddy and needed a pot contact. We worked extremely well together. Getting a write-up in the company flyer for saving them over 100,000 dollars per year.

You win some you lose some.

Go Broncos


Unjust untrue unfair. Part of the curse on the UN for their attempt to rid the planet of marijuana.
Unjust untrue unfair. Part of the curse on the UN for their attempt to rid the planet of marijuana.


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 19, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

Tony B wrote:
The paranoid people are not in the line-ups... goes without saying, doesn't it? ? About your "all natural substances" stance: Is modern weed grown in modern strains really that "natural"? And what is the problem with a synthetic reproduction of that or analog? Should they be any less legal? They are probably purer (or would be if legalized and lab-made not bathtub/coffee mug made). Heroin and Coke have natural origins... LSD and MDMA are synthetic. Which would bother you more to hear your kid was using it? DMT and 5MEO-DMT are natural in their origin as well. Should extracting them be legally superior to manufacturing them? The whole "natural" thing kinda disturbs me, but perhaps there is a better argument than I have really heard from the pot-preachers.

Doc Ellis is my hero (He pitched a no hitter while high on pot).
Google: "Nobel prize" LSD
The myths are falling hard. Great stuff for our side.



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By Taylor J
From new mexico, new england
Jan 19, 2014
5.6? 5.7? Fun climb was easier to solo then to lead...Not sure of the climb its on the right of the trail if coming from the slabs to round pond...

Tony B wrote:
The paranoid people are not in the line-ups... goes without saying, doesn't it? ? About your "all natural substances" stance: Is modern weed grown in modern strains really that "natural"? And what is the problem with a synthetic reproduction of that or analog? Should they be any less legal? They are probably purer (or would be if legalized and lab-made not bathtub/coffee mug made). Heroin and Coke have natural origins... LSD and MDMA are synthetic. Which would bother you more to hear your kid was using it? DMT and 5MEO-DMT are natural in their origin as well. Should extracting them be legally superior to manufacturing them? The whole "natural" thing kinda disturbs me, but perhaps there is a better argument than I have really heard from the pot-preachers.


Making anything illegal has never stopped people from using it ever, and the comparison of pot to acid heroin or coke is a ridiculous one. And yes pot is still grown naturally in a lot of cases...


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Jan 19, 2014
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

I'm sure the shops do have a use policy. They also are not using power tools or in potentially dangerous locations and are not putting fellow employees at risk by possibly being not quite as attentive as they should be. I have nothing against pot use and have supported it becoming legal for years. Doesn't mean I want my employees high at work. These people represent me and my companies which I have worked very hard to build. What they do on their time is up to them. My time is different.
At the distillery this is even more crucial. One momentary lapse can end up costing a lot and is potentially deadly.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 19, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

taylor januskiewiecz wrote:
Making anything illegal has never stopped people from using it ever, and the comparison of pot to acid heroin or coke is a ridiculous one. And yes pot is still grown naturally in a lot of cases...

Hi Taylor,
If you re-examine my position carefully, its context, and the question I posted, you might notice that you did not address any of them.
His stance was legalize everything "natural."
I found the idea that "natural" including heroin, but NOT legalizing LSD, MDMA, MDA, 2CB, 2CI, etc... would be silly. And in that I was pointing out what a silly designation "natural" is.
I was suggesting legalize it all, or at least the stuff that is extremely unlikely to kill(IE mushrooms, LSD, Peyote, Mescaline, 2ci, 2cb, etc...)


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By Taylor J
From new mexico, new england
Jan 19, 2014
5.6? 5.7? Fun climb was easier to solo then to lead...Not sure of the climb its on the right of the trail if coming from the slabs to round pond...

Tony B wrote:
Hi Taylor, If you re-examine my position carefully, and the context of it, it is not the least bit ridiculous. His stance was legalize everything "natural." I found the idea that "natural" including heroin, but NOT legalizing LSD, MDMA, MDA, 2CB, 2CI, etc... would be silly. And in that I was pointing out what a silly designation "natural" is. I was suggesting legalize it all, or at least the stuff that is extremely unlikely to kill(IE mushrooms, LSD, Peyote, Mescaline, 2ci, 2cb, etc...) Second of all, comparing pot to acid is not ridiculous either unless you are suggesting that since lsd has had less of a detrimental effect on me, it should not be compared to pot, which makes me paranoid...


FYI: Heroin has to be manufactured opium is derived naturally from the poppy plant not heroin. On the other hand pot can be smoked straight off the plant in its natural state, And the lsd comparison is still ridiculous if I did lsd as much as I smoke pot I would loose my mind. And I would be willing to bet your were paranoid while on pot, but it was not a permanent side effect of having smoked pot. Look into the long term effects chronic lsd use....

That being said I agree that just because something is natural does not make it any healthier or any better for you than something synthetic.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 19, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

taylor januskiewiecz wrote:
FYI: Heroin has to be manufactured opium is derived naturally from the poppy plant not heroin. On the other hand pot can be smoked straight off the plant in its natural state, And the lsd comparison is still ridiculous if I did lsd as much as I smoke pot I would loose my mind. And I would be willing to bet your were paranoid while on pot, but it was not a permanent side effect of having smoked pot. Look into the long term effects chronic lsd use.... That being said I agree that just because something is natural does not make it any healthier or any better for you than something synthetic.

Long term chronic use of anything is BS, and you are arguing a point I never made. I said it had natural origins, and it does.
If you want to argue, please specify your point. Is it just to nit pick me or do you actually believe that "natural" vs derived vs synthetic matters at all.
The point I made was that the line drawn around "natural" is capricious, and you seemed to agree. Within the context of that argument, I don;t think I seriously needed enlightened...

Cobra venom is natural, and you can smoke poison ivy "straight off the plant in its natural state," but I DO NOT recommend it. There are frogs in the amazon you can lick, trip your balls off for 20 seconds, then die.

As for LSD use, I've "looked into" that (if you mean studied it in various contexts) quite a bit. As you probably know, the most considerable major contraindication of casual use is the possible early manifestation of a genetic predisposition to(no additional eventual risk, just earlier onset) a select set of psychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia. There is more academic knowledge of that drug and it's mode of action than there is of most others INCLUDING modern pot, because it is a simple drug and is not loaded with so many and variable things. We are just coming to understand the various CBD's and such in pot even now.
But the compendium of studies on actual casual users of LSD have not given any statistically detectable indication of lower quality of life or consequential risk, beyond antecdotes of making a bad decision while on it... Casual users tend to have longer lasting relationships, lower divorce rates, higher educational achievement, higher income, more career advancement, higher IQ, no more common nor severe health problems, etc... than the non-user group.
To Note, I do not advocate the drug for anyone, I simply point out that if you are looking for consequence to casual use, you won't find it beyond anecdote. I so I asked - if Pot should be legal, what about the synthetics?
Now... chronic ACUTE use of any drug is going to hurt you. We all know that. Esp Nicotine, Caffeine, and Alcohol.

Check out Nutt's harm index some time!
PS - to make that easy... Nutt's Harm Index


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Jan 19, 2014
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

Heard this on my way out of the bar after the Broncos win.
You know why the Broncos will win the Super Bowl this year?
Cause God is happy with Colorado for spreading the herb.


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By JCM
From Golden, CO
Jan 19, 2014

Tony B wrote:
PS - to make that easy... Nutt's Harm Index


Yes, this study and many others show that "naturalness" and harmfulness (for intoxicants) are essentially uncorrelated. Hence, the "legalize it because it is natural" argument doesn't hold up very well. There are much better reasons to support legalizing a given substance.


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By SexPanther aka Kiedis
Jan 20, 2014
Thumbtastic

Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp wrote:
There is no paranoia where Pot is legal. None. I almost quit a couple times because my heart was beating so fast from the paranoia. Eventually one gets really good at handling paranoia....You quit because you didn't want to lose your future life and were afraid of that (I can't blame you for that) but some of us kept up the fight. In 45 year plus I have seen many quitters along the way, so I know B.S. when I hear it. I am 'The Greatest Programmer on Earth' having written the #1 and #2 computer programs of all time. Nope you know very little about pot and are a sellout to the cause and liar. You want to deny us our freedom and those that can be healed by this plant to suffer. Nope you are an idiot and evil to spread such lies.


You actually typed every one of these things. Spellbinding.

It feels like a worthwhile thing to pick this apart and point out the inconsistencies, contradictions, and name calling, but I have to say...I'm fascinated by the scope of madness here. Apparently, I am an evil idiot who foolishly slighted the inspired tee shirt designs of yesteryear, if I was a true believer I would like lame hand drawn dragon tee shirts, obviously. I feared for my future life, want to deny the mysterious royal "us" freedom, I know very little about pot (remind me to introduce you to some of the victims of my hemp decorticator history lessons sometime), there is no paranoia but you get used to the paranoia (obviously). You know BS, including that you are the Grand Poohbah of Earthling Logicomputer Program Imagineering.

So to sum it up, your artistry in tee shirts and tall tales are singularly inspiring, I clearly could not sell out, quit the cause that I was never made aware that I was a part of in the first place, and spread lies about such because I didn't enjoy being stoned all the time. That never happens. I was simply afraid of the future.

It's so simple!


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By s.price
From PS,CO
Jan 20, 2014
 Morning Dew ,self portrait

For the most part I have to agree with with the last post.
Doug, you seem very quick to jump on those who do not fully support your agenda. And many of your statements about pot cannot be backed up by fact. Enlightened? Hardly. No dependency? Been around pot smokers for more than 40 years and still partake on occasion and have seen plenty of people over the years who were dependent. Roommates who wake up at 2 am to have a few puffs so they can get back to sleep.
Co workers back in the day when I was still swingin a hammer who had to re up every couple of hours. Friends who can't do ANYTHING without getting high first. That's dependency. Not enlightenment.
My own brother can't make it through a day without always being stoned. And it has nothing to do with his health. No different than any other drug whether it's chocolate, caffeine, alcohol or THC. It's still something you depend on if you don't feel like you can function without it. For some it's cheeseburgers.
Maybe you made so much money being the greatest programmer in the history of the world than you can lay around all day getting high and doodling on t-shirts. That is not a reality for most of us nor one quite a few of us would want.


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By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Jan 20, 2014
...

"The bills including this year's, House Bill 1114 all set a limit of how much THC drivers can have in their blood before they will be considered too high to drive. THC is the psychoactive chemical in marijuana, and the bills all set the limit at 5 nanograms per milliliter of blood.

The three previous bills, though, made the amount a "per se" limit, meaning that testing above the amount would result in a near-automatic conviction. Marijuana advocates argued that some frequent users, such as medical-marijuana patients, might not be impaired at the amount and could be convicted while driving sober.

This year's bill makes the limit a "permissive inference" of impairment essentially a nudge to a jury."


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 20, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

They attack us. Time to return the favor.

Prohibitionists think we should lose our freedom family & fortune because of pot; and feel we should be OK with them thinking that.

Prohibitionists especially the intelligentsia can't imagine they were lied to and have been wrong all their lives

Prohibitionists think that the Legalization crowd are the ones that are lying.

Prohibitionists are condescending judgementalists - every perceived personality flaw they see; is somehow related to pot.

Prohibitionists will be lumped in with the temperance league when it comes to smarts. Only they will be considered even stupider. The temperance league were right on a few points. Like violence and physical damage

Prohibitionists are afraid of legalization because when they don't toke up with their friends; they will know that they were talking behind their backs and were Judgmental Condescendings

Prohibitionists are terrified at the possibility that Pot is a (performance / life) enhancing herb. They do like the falsehood that Pot dumbs peoples senses

Prohibitionists are sure they know more about Cannabis than someone that has spent their whole life with the Marijuana plant.

Prohibitionists will say there are downsides to everything. "NAME THEM" I bet you can't name any.

Prohibitionists try and switch the topic to other drugs when they don't have a leg to stand on when discussing pot.

Prohibitionists have no heroes (witness Ted Cruz) just liars, fibbers and stupid's. Our side has thousands of heroes. Marc Emery is my favorite

Prohibitionists think everyone that doesn't agree with them is trolling
.
.
.

Power Stone. Every Great Shaman has 1 or more.
Power Stone. Every Great Shaman has 1 or more.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Jan 20, 2014

i dont think you are selling your cause very well at this point Pectate, unless you are trolling.


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 20, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

David Sahalie wrote:
i dont think you are selling your cause very well at this point Pectate, unless you are trolling.

And what would you suggest. I'm open to suggestions.
Prohibitionists think everyone that doesn't agree with them is trolling


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
Jan 20, 2014

mr. swamp,

you are basically preaching to the choir on this thread. Tony is for legalization, but doesn't smoke. I am for legalization and do smoke daily (after work) and generally dont smoke while climbing. Neither one of us are 'vibing' (80s stoner talk) with your religious fervor.

CO is the second place in the world to allow sale of MJ to anyone. i didn't think 'merica would see this level for another 10 years.

So while I agree that stoners have had a difficult time in the failed war on drugs, this is a new day. rejoice!


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By MC Poopypants
Jan 20, 2014
Dropping a deuce

I don't know what the hell Doug is talking about but he's got my full support. His posts are strange and mysterious and he's way more charismatic than anyone else here.

Tony, you are so bothered by this stoner religon and yet you yourself have a religon, Libertarianism, that you like to lecture people about. Maybe everyone should let go of these ideologies/indetities and seek unity. Jah will provide.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 20, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

MC Poopypants wrote:
Tony, you are so bothered by this stoner religon and yet you yourself have a religon, Libertarianism, that you like to lecture people about. Maybe everyone should let go of these ideologies/identities and seek unity. Jah will provide.

Sorry to disappoint you, but if it is based on facts, logic (even if inductive) and principle it is not a religion. There are no rites, rituals, sacred text, elements of faith, or historical charismatic leaders. The hallmarks of a religion are absent in my statements.

I recall stating facts about drugs and positions on ballot measures and actual law and policy, but nothing about 'enlightenment' or good vs evil, nothing about greater good, nothing about sacred texts, no leaders, etc. Just plain ole' policy talk.

So I'm trying to recall when I lectured anyone on this thread about Libertarianism. Can you please quote one line where I did? That's officially a challenge, and I'm calling you out for being full of shit in the mean time. If I did, then you'd be right and I was pontificating, but I don't think so.


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By MC Poopypants
Jan 20, 2014
Dropping a deuce

Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This is big time, bigger than Honnolds fan club. This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting!

How's that for some bullshit?


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 20, 2014
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

MC Poopypants wrote:
Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting! How's that for some bullshit?

Pretty good bullshit. It stacks up to a mound that I doubt you could climb even with aid gear. Pack some supplemental oxygen and hire a porter.

You are wrong on all accounts on everything you presume about me.

Glad pot got legalized at the state level in 2 states. That is good news, but too bad you don't realize that the fight, let alone the war, is not over yet.


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By D.Buffum
Jan 21, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008

The more I read what the pro-pot activists on this thread have to say, the more uncomfortable I become with the end of prohibition. There's a lot of counter-productive hyperbole on this thread.

I support the end of prohibition because as a policy the negative effects have been quite grave. Millions of people incarcerated, disenfranchisement, appalling violence, and many other negative effects of prohibition can be ended, and should never have occurred.

Conceded that he propaganda against marijuana use has contained a lot of overblown nonsense about the harmful effects of use. But the idiocy of the propaganda in support makes me uneasy about the long-term effects on users. For those people who argue that there are no negative effects and that it's some kind of cure-all, I ask, "what the hell have you been smoking?"


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 21, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

MC Poopypants wrote:
Whoa bud, take it easy. Come in here all yelling at people like your their dad and shit. You prohibitionists are all angry and shit just 'cause we won the war! This is big time, bigger than Honnolds fan club. This will change the course of the nation. I've easily spent $50,000+ over the years to support the cause. You? Nothing. Just come in here pooping all over the celebration with your - quit the bullshitting, quit bullshitting! How's that for some bullshit?

I've spent a ton of CASH supporting the cause as well.
Most went to people who were friends of mine. There is no doubt that the Marijuana people spent Trillions to win this war. Every penny was worth it to legalize such a tremendous plant.

What's not to stone t-shirt. <br />All the little animals love it.
What's not to stone t-shirt.
All the little animals love it.


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By MC Poopypants
Jan 21, 2014
Dropping a deuce

Tony,

I apologize for what I said, I'm just messing around. I am not trying to be accurate or honest I'm just playing. But c'mon, you're in here debating Cheech and Chong about stoner religon and you think it's going to be any different?

Without having met you I've got a good amount of respect for you based on your demeaner here and tend to agree with your point of view most of the time.


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By Doug Pederson SpectateSwamp
Jan 21, 2014
In 1993 I ran for election in the YellowHead riding. I painted my head yellow. see "yellowhead speaks 1993" for the youtube video

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.




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