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120 meter ropes for Ceuse
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By Rami Najjar
Jul 24, 2014
I was at Ceuse a few days ago and noticed many routes that exceeded even the 40 meter range and went into the 60 meters. This would require 120 meter ropes, and it is recommended in the guidebook to use this for some climbs. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with such long ropes and their thoughts on the matter. Many routes are quite overhung or veer right so rapping off to the lower anchors with a 70 meter rope is not always an option.

Where is best to get such a rope?

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By Tico
Jul 24, 2014
The shop in Gap (not the decathlon, the other one) and the shops in Cham often have long cords. In the states, Sterling will generally cut custom, it can take a while. Trailing/pulling through a pull cord and then stashing it at anchors works well for projects.

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By shoo
Jul 24, 2014
Rock wars, Red River Gorge
An alternative is to use two 60m ropes. Climb on one rope, hauling the second rope. Rappel off the top, tying the two ropes together. It might be tough to clean if the route wanders and/or overhangs.

I'm sure there is some clever way to be lowered on two topes to make cleaning easier, but the knot/bend seems to be tricky.

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By Antonio Caligiuri
From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Jul 24, 2014
Approaching the anchors on Eclipse (5.6) at Breakneck Rocks in Connellsville, PA.
shoo wrote:
An alternative is to use two 60m ropes. Climb on one rope, hauling the second rope. Rappel off the top, tying the two ropes together. It might be tough to clean if the route wanders and/or overhangs. I'm sure there is some clever way to be lowered on two topes to make cleaning easier, but the knot/bend seems to be tricky.


I'd imagine it could be done by the climber clipping in direct to a bolt halfway down, allowing the belayer to briefly take him/her off belay to surpass the knot. Or maybe with two belay devices so you're never off belay.Just spitballing here, that might be terrible advice.

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By David Coley
From UK
Jul 24, 2014
Rami Najjar wrote:
. Many routes are quite overhung or veer right so rapping off to the lower anchors with a 70 meter rope is not always an option. Where is best to get such a rope?


Rami, can you not just tramline (i.e clip a draw from the up rope to your belay loop) down to the mid-station and lower from there?

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By Cultivating Mass
Jul 24, 2014
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
I've been having trouble finding 6600' ropes to do the Nose in one pitch and lower to the ground off of the tree up top.

Does the OP really believe that there are buckets of routes at Ceuse requiring 120 meter ropes to lower? It's a 400' dynamic line, G money. That's probably linking 3-5 pitches, 40+ quickdraws, seven blocks of chalk, and 4 buttplugs to keep your belayer's head clean. You think this is standard practice? Ever met someone who's climbed on a rope longer than 80 meters?

Relax, buy and 80 and a tag line, then go over there and find out that's all you need. If there are really at least a dozen routes that require a 120 meter rope that the OP has a prayer of sending on his trip, I will eat a curried approach shoe with a side of fries.

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By Tronald Dump
Jul 24, 2014
What is a double rope rappel?

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By kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Jul 24, 2014
Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
Rami Najjar wrote:
I was at Ceuse a few days ago and noticed many routes that exceeded even the 40 meter range and went into the 60 meters. This would require 120 meter ropes, and it is recommended in the guidebook to use this for some climbs. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with such long ropes and their thoughts on the matter. Many routes are quite overhung or veer right so rapping off to the lower anchors with a 70 meter rope is not always an option. Where is best to get such a rope?


I believe that 80m cords are pretty standard in Ceuse, if a route is longer than 40 meters you just LPL (lower, pull, lower). In your example of a 60 meter route that overhangs or traverses, you just get to the top, clip a draw between your belay loop and the belayer side of the rope so that you can tram in, then you lower until the belayer reaches the end of the rope. At this point, you go in direct to the nearest bolt (most likely it will have a fixed draw or biner or something on it from others who are doing the same thing), pull the rope through the anchors, re-tie in to the end of the rope, and lower the rest of the way to the ground. On a 60m route (I doubt there are many) an 80m rope would work out perfectly for the LPL, first lower is 20m, second is 40m. Just make sure you tie a knot in the end of your rope.

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By reboot
From Westminster, CO
Jul 24, 2014
What's with everyone's reading comprehension? The OP explicitly stated he was at Ceuse just a few days ago, the freaking guidebook states it's nice to have a 120m rope for some of the routes. But obviously, not having the experience of ever climbed a 60/65m sport route in a single pitch still makes you an expert on the subject. As for whether he can send the routes at Ceuse, the guy's profile suggest he may have redpointed up to 8b-8c range, so why not?

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Jul 25, 2014
reboot wrote:
What's with everyone's reading comprehension? The OP explicitly stated he was at Ceuse just a few days ago, the freaking guidebook states it's nice to have a 120m rope for some of the routes. But obviously, not having the experience of ever climbed a 60/65m sport route in a single pitch still makes you an expert on the subject. As for whether he can send the routes at Ceuse, the guy's profile suggest he may have redpointed up to 8b-8c range, so why not?


Exactly.

As usual, here in the U.S. and Canada we continue to lag behind the Euro sport climbers. While we are just starting to accept 80m ropes, the Euros are already on 90m ropes, 100m ropes, and longer in certain climbing areas.

I work in a gear shop. We sell a bunch of 60m ropes, a few 70m ropes, and 2 80m ropes. I occasionally get the visiting Euro climber who is surprised and disappointed that we do not sell 90m ropes.

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By Khoi
From Vancouver, BC
Jul 25, 2014
Zappatista wrote:
I've been having trouble finding 6600' ropes to do the Nose in one pitch and lower to the ground off of the tree up top. Does the OP really believe that there are buckets of routes at Ceuse requiring 120 meter ropes to lower? It's a 400' dynamic line, G money. That's probably linking 3-5 pitches, 40+ quickdraws, seven blocks of chalk, and 4 buttplugs to keep your belayer's head clean. You think this is standard practice? Ever met someone who's climbed on a rope longer than 80 meters? Relax, buy and 80 and a tag line, then go over there and find out that's all you need. If there are really at least a dozen routes that require a 120 meter rope that the OP has a prayer of sending on his trip, I will eat a curried approach shoe with a side of fries.


We will hold you to that.

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By Rami Najjar
Jul 25, 2014
kennoyce wrote:
I believe that 80m cords are pretty standard in Ceuse, if a route is longer than 40 meters you just LPL (lower, pull, lower). In your example of a 60 meter route that overhangs or traverses, you just get to the top, clip a draw between your belay loop and the belayer side of the rope so that you can tram in, then you lower until the belayer reaches the end of the rope. At this point, you go in direct to the nearest bolt (most likely it will have a fixed draw or biner or something on it from others who are doing the same thing), pull the rope through the anchors, re-tie in to the end of the rope, and lower the rest of the way to the ground. On a 60m route (I doubt there are many) an 80m rope would work out perfectly for the LPL, first lower is 20m, second is 40m. Just make sure you tie a knot in the end of your rope.


Some routes, such as Les Collenettes, is a 20-25 meter climb rated at 13b, then if you do the extension which is a full 60 meters, its a 14a and the route is described as a fantastic one. Being lowered off the top of such a route from a belayer would not allow you to reach the first anchors. Setting up a rappel would be very difficult to clean since it is quite steep. I am curious what people really do on these massive routes. Of course there are not hundreds of really long routes, but plenty of routes in the 50-60 meter range to peak my interest. How cool would it be to climb continuously nonstop for 200+ feet. The idea is awesome.

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By Cultivating Mass
Jul 25, 2014
Leading on the only "fair means" rack.
Rami Najjar wrote:
I am curious what people really do on these massive routes. Of course there are not hundreds of really long routes.....How cool would it be to climb continuously nonstop for 200+ feet. The idea is awesome.


Yep. Feeling pretty safe on the shoe appetizers.

Reboot, never seen a Ceuse guide, never heard of anyone using a rope longer than 100m, no need to tweak, just sounds like an unlikely situation to be shut down at the crag for lack of a 400' rope. What do I know, I climb in the desert, it's all short pitches and scrambling out here :) My 80 is gathering dust, 120 is the new 70!

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By teece303
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Jul 25, 2014
Aiding. Photo by Locker.
The idea of a 120m rope makes me want to punch somebody in the junk. Is this seriously a thing? Rope drag must be awesome at meter 115.

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By marty funkhouser
Jul 25, 2014
Rami Najjar wrote:
if you do the extension which is a full 60 meters, its a 14a and the route is described as a fantastic one. Being lowered off the top of such a route from a belayer would not allow you to reach the first anchors. Setting up a rappel would be very difficult to clean since it is quite steep. I am curious what people really do on these massive routes.


2nd cleans and/or jugs and drags a second 60m

As mentioned eariler, I have a feeling that if el cap were located in europe these guys would be advocating 2000m ropes

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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 26, 2014
Rami Najjar wrote:
How cool would it be to climb continuously nonstop for 200+ feet.

You can climb 5000' in one pitch if you free solo. Also, climbing 200' in one pitch has been around since the 70s. It's pretty common to hit 170'ish+ on some multipitch routes.

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By doligo
Jul 26, 2014
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
jeff lebowski wrote:
2nd cleans and/or jugs and drags a second 60m


How do you suppose the second will be getting up there? Belayed from top? It's Europe, no one topropes, there are no beefy two bolt anchors on top to go off belay and belay from top.

The only cheap solution, I could think of is to tape two rope ends together, pull a second rope through the draws, rappel while being clipped to the rope running through the draws to clean? Still, sounds like a PITA...

Rami, I'm curious how many draws those 60m pitches call for. I know Millet makes their ropes in 200m and 400m. They also have that Opoosite TRX rope that has 2 diameters in one (a part in 9 mil for sending and part in 10 mil for working), but it only comes in 100m at most.

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By Rami Najjar
Jul 26, 2014
20 kN wrote:
You can climb 5000' in one pitch if you free solo. Also, climbing 200' in one pitch has been around since the 70s. It's pretty common to hit 170'ish+ on some multipitch routes.


Its not that common if 99% of sport routes in America that are single pitch are maximum 35 meters. I am not talking about free soloing or multi pitch climbing either, that's not helpful. I guess no one here has had direct experience with these super long routes. Several climbing shops in Europe actually do custom cuts in store. 100 meter ropes will be long enough to reach the first set of anchors on the routes I am referring to.

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By Rami Najjar
Jul 26, 2014
doligo wrote:
How do you suppose the second will be getting up there? Belayed from top? It's Europe, no one topropes, there are no beefy two bolt anchors on top to go off belay and belay from top. The only cheap solution, I could think of is to tape two rope ends together, pull a second rope through the draws, rappel while being clipped to the rope running through the draws to clean? Still, sounds like a PITA... Rami, I'm curious how many draws those 60m pitches call for. I know Millet makes their ropes in 200m and 400m. They also have that Opoosite TRX rope that has 2 diameters in one (a part in 9 mil for sending and part in 10 mil for working), but it only comes in 100m at most.


Several of these really long routes are perma hung so taking draws up is not always an issue. But yeah I can imagine for the routes that are not perma bolted alot of draws would be needed.

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By doligo
Jul 26, 2014
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style
Rami Najjar wrote:
I guess no one here has had direct experience with these super long routes.


Perhaps you can direct message J-star - he's on this site, but not on forums. I only have experience with 160'+ routes in IC and the rope gets pretty heavy to clip up top even without the rope drag. You may want to do a fixed second rope method mentioned above to work the route and get a skinny 120m for the send?

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By Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Jul 26, 2014
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenstein Amphitheater
Rami Najjar wrote:
I guess no one here has had direct experience with these super long routes. Several climbing shops in Europe actually do custom cuts in store..


If they did, they would answer your question not show how ignorant they are. I don't know shit about shit. I do know someone that contacted Bluewater ropes for a 350 foot rope. Couldn't you call the manufacturer of whatever rope you want and buy the length you need from them?

50 meter and overhanging... sounds challenging!


Edit the next day: I talked to my friend. That Bluewater rope is 300 not 350 feet and is nothing special. The rope was ordered from Bluewater ropes. In my defense, I told you I don't know what I'm talking about.

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By Ray Pinpillage
From West Egg
Jul 26, 2014
Middle
300m spool cut and split among friends is probably the most cost effective. I think Liberty stocks spools but I'm not sure which specific models. I bought a 300m spool of Edelweiss from them five years ago but it was 10.5.

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By Tico
Jul 26, 2014
Rami, I answered your question with direct experience.

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By 20 kN
From Hawaii
Jul 26, 2014
Rami Najjar wrote:
99% of sport routes in America that are single pitch are maximum 35 meters.

Which is how it should be.

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By Optimistic
From New Paltz
Jul 26, 2014
Here's one where your 120m cord won't be long enough!

Sharma on the 90m Infinity Lane...

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By kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Jul 27, 2014
Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
Rami Najjar wrote:
I guess no one here has had direct experience with these super long routes.


Like Tico, I also answered your question with direct experience with super long routes, not from Ceuse, but from other overhanging sport climbing areas featuring routes that are longer than half a rope length. In my experience, Lower Pull Lower is pretty standard procedure for routes that are longer than half a rope length, but shorter than the full rope length.

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