Argument with a climber at Bear Island crag in Joshua Tree National Park

My wife and I arrived "bear island" area in Joshua Tree National Park on Nov. 29th, 2015 in the afternoon around 2 pm.
We saw a party of two Top Roping "Ursa Major". The belaying was using a grigri to belay the climber. He seemed extremely focused on his belaying(considering it's a top rope belay), so i didn't talk to him.

I put my backpack in front of the route "Kodiak", started to rack up, wanting to lead "Kodiak". A few seconds later, the belayer from "Ursa Major" party moved very close to me and asked me to move out of his way because he is belaying. I don't know why he moved right toward me, maybe he wanted his side of the rope our of the climber way? Anyway, i moved out of his way.

A moment later he said to me that what i did (trying to rack up in front of the route "Kodiak") was very dangerous and disrespectful.
I appoligized, since when I moved to the spot to rack up, it didn't occur to me that he would suddenly move toward me.

I told he that i was there because i want to do Kodiak.
He siad he is going to top rope Kodiak and I can't lead it. He also mentioned that the park is big, why couldn't I go somewhere else. He and his partner later on kept saying this to their other friends. They felt that since they were here first, I shouldn't be here.

We started to argue and then he got very upset and literally said that he will purposely keep occupying those routes so that i can't climb there.
I didn't want to argue with him, but sure I was very upset.

I am going to respond to him here wishing he would see it.

(1): Joshua Tree National Park is big, but I do have my right be be at this particular area. You are here first, so i should respect you and I did. But you should respect the fact that I have my freedom to be here as well.

(2): You are top roping "Ursa Major", so I moved to your right and was racking up to do "Kodiak", I just don't see why I can't. You don't own this area by being here earlier than me. Why do you think you do?

I just moved to SoCal from the east coast and don't really know the climbing culture here. Please let me know if i am wrong and and it's totally my fault.

Again, I do wish that "he" sees this or any of his friends see this and inform him. Please share crags with other climbers.

I do have to mention that the two routes share a two bolts anchor. But there is a nice crack right below the anchor, so i can easily built up my own anchor and don't need to use the bolts anchor, which they were using for top roping.

Phillip

If he was belaying his climber with a Gri Gri, they'll all be dead soon so I wouldn't worry about it.

what ended up happening? FWIW you are not in the wrong from this presentation.

Leader has priority, out of the way top roper.

Sounds like there was room for both of you, and that guy was an ass. If you had been assertive, not wanting to submit to his unreasonable "get out of my climbing area" idea, you could have just gone ahead and climbed your route.

This has nothing to do with the overall west coast culture.

Edit: I just looked at the photos and lines of each route on MP. Looks like two totally different routes with a shared anchor. No reason two parties can't climb those at the same time.

Sounds like you did the right thing. The other guy was a jerk.

In most cases, people come to a mutually beneficial agreement. A few weekends ago I was with a group sharing a 3 bolt anchor plus gear over 4 different routes with a different group. We all worked to stay out of each other's way and it was a great time.

You were right. other guy was lame. that crag is kind of boring anyway , keep on walking on the trail and hit Route 66....best easy lead in the park, or head over to reggie dome just off the boyscout parking lot and do The Chief another easy lead like Kodiak.

This is all I can think of

youtube.com/watch?v=uaPWwyC…

What Locker said! I was there today walking around (unfortunately not climbing) and kinda wished I saw that unfold. You gotta just laugh at the guy and just start climbing. Some fuckin people and their entitlement.

What's worse now is that this moron now feels vindicted in his beliefs... But this us the US and iff you get into an argument, which could degenerate, you may learn that insecure idiot is packing.
Moving on can be the right thing to do, hopefully someone will teach clueless.

Based on the MP pictures it seems like the routes are seperate and if either party fell their wouldn't be a pendulum risk. If that's the case, you were 100% in the right. Climbs aren't library books, you can't reserve them until you're finally ready to get on them.

For future reference: If you can lead trad and you're arguing with a top rope hero climbing 5.5 with a gri gri, you're automatically right. Doesn't even matter what the topic is.

Locker wrote:I would have told him to fuck off and then climbed whatever I wanted.

If I was there with you, and we had a little practice beforehand, we could sing "fuck off, duuuuuuuuuuuuude!" in harmony. Get two more guys and we would have a barbershop quartet.

This:
sfgate.com/news/article/Fir…

^ what does that have to do with anything? ^

I can see staying off a route adjacent to them were if there was a safety issue: the routes are so close that a lead fall could land on one of them, there was potential for knocking big rocks down on them, etc.

Looks like there's almost 10 feet between the base of the two routes, and if he's doing a slingshot on Ursa Major I can't imagine how your standing in front of Kodiak would endanger his belay.

If two routes share a TR anchor and your group may take a while, it's polite to ask if the other group plans to climb the second route after they climb the first. But, yeah, in the end they can't reserve it. If they have to wait for you to finish, that's the price for not getting on the route first.

He sounds lame for sure. The online retort, however, is also lame. It is not climbing culture to act like a passive-aggressive little baby at the crag anywhere. Just play with his butthole a little while he's belaying next time.

I understand that sharing is caring. The parties could have climbed together and slapped high fives at the top. Respect to people that share. This being said, if I were climbing a route in Jtree or similar place. And someone encroached on me, I'd pack up and find a new wall. There is so much to climb out there. Doesn't seem like buddying up on anchors is necessary. I guess some people HAVE to climb certain routes because of whatever goals they've set for themselves. Wether for better or worse, I choose solitude over crowds. Just my preferences. Maybe the OP likes company. I can see it as being a comfort for some, just not for me.

Locker wrote:I would have told him to fuck off and then climbed whatever I wanted.

+1 Sometimes I wish climbers had more of that attitude after reading these stories on MP all the time.

Too many "quotes"

Locker wrote:I would have told him to fuck off and then climbed whatever I wanted.

Yup, too late now though.

Adam Stackhouse wrote:^ what does that have to do with anything? ^

Been to J-Tree? Talked to the rangers with the probs and attitudes of the 'climbing' community? I can bet that the authorities are out looking for 'climbers' who perped this. Just part of the culture and part of the problem, which is what this post is about. Blatant disregard for nature, rock, people, etc.