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New Alpinism

Tamer Farag · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
beytzim wrote:James, Nothing beats specifity. You need to replicate your climbing goals to your training. I can personally attest that I'm a lousy runner. Fortunately, You don't run up a mountain. Hiking up steep terrain with a heavy pack is the best aerobic training you can do.
My experience has been different. It seems like running provides a benefit that weighted uphill hiking doesn't. Building up to the ability to do a 90 minute zone 1/2 running session has done wonders for my steep hiking speed. There's something about the faster cadence that seems to translate to the ability to do weighted ascents faster while staying in the aerobic zone.

I don't know what it is. Would be curious to hear from others.
George W · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 6
Tamer Farag wrote: My experience has been different. It seems like running provides a benefit that weighted uphill hiking doesn't. Building up to the ability to do a 90 minute zone 1/2 running session has done wonders for my steep hiking speed. There's something about the faster cadence that seems to translate to the ability to do weighted ascents faster while staying in the aerobic zone. I don't know what it is. Would be curious to hear from others.
There's reference to this in the book. The idea is that when you aren't at peak physical condition, anything will benefit. However, the claim is that spending too much time in that high intensity zone prevents you from developing the base of fitness that's necessary to reach your true potential in a zone 3/4 exercise.

Also, with regard to long duration events (i.e. Alpinism) you would break the aerobic threshold at a zone 3 pace, therefore depleting your glycogen reserves, and preventing you from fulfilling intense physical endeavors during a climb (i.e. sending that crux after a long approach).

Zone 3/4 exercises are acknowledged in the base period of the training as being beneficial in moderation, but it's only a small part of the goal.

I can't speak to this personally, because I've only just read the book, and am in the first few weeks of training.
climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 95

I'm in week 7 of the Transition phase. I have a climbing trip planned for mid December and plan on extending the Transition to 10 weeks as I will use the taper to rest before my trip.

Going through the Base planning phase it gives me a Week 1 schedule (pg 248) and it makes since with the graph above it. My question is when I start to increase my workout time should I keep the same relative schedule and make my workouts longer or do I add some Zone 1 into some of my off/recovery time?

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
Alex Gauthier 1 wrote:That's a pretty glowing endorsement so let me throw out some unfortunate downsides: 3. Social life. Ever trained for a marathon or something? Yeah... your friends may forget your name.
I can attest to that one. Sitting around one night in the bugs this summer my friends asked how "following Steve House's plan" went. I explained that it's more of a guideline, that you create your own routine and that I had named mine "Abandoning Your Sex Life For the Alpinism".

My background was coming from years of splitboarding, hiking, trail running and mountaineering. I had just started technical rock in May of 14, so I definitely was their example of someone who needed to address technical skills. Since most of my climbing goals for the summer didn't involve approaches over 2 hours in length and I had years of endurance to build on I wasn't worried about having less time training cardio.

The book really opened my eyes about the reasons to train in Z1, I realized that I had done most of my runs (even long ones) in Z3-4 and was doing all other activities in Z2. I used to bring a ton of food on climbs, I'd pop a couple shot blocks at least every 45 minutes or face bonking. When it came to touring I would always just go until I thought my heart was going to explode out of my chest, then stop for 30 seconds to a minute and repeat.
Lowering everything to Z1 was hard, it did feel like a snails pace at first, especially touring. After months though the effect of Z1 training really started to become noticeable, I never had to stop for rests on an approach or touring, I wasn't craving sugar and needed far less food while out. Part way through the climbing season (well after training was completed) I timed myself on the same run that I had started on the previous fall. That 5k hilly trail was a 12 minute mile pace last October, in August I could easily do it at a 9 minute mile pace with easy nose breathing.

Since I needed to work on technical climbing, but my time was limited, I tried to focus on one technique per pitch/problem instead of just "climbing a route". Say quiet feet, then straight arms, then an easy slab route with no hands, a route with slopers, an easy route backstepping each move, layback a crack, etc.. Once I got in to the max strength portion I decided to actually only do one day a week on weights, but make the other day powerful (to me) bouldering problems. Thankfully my gym sets a lot of problems that take power, but with larger positive hands, it was perfect for where I started at strength wise.

By the end of April my plan started to fall apart though, I was blindly following a plan to my grave as they say in the book. I was so fatigued that on drive out to crag I would fall asleep in the car, then again at lunch, and again in the car on the way back. Even though I could still do things at a higher level than I ever had before I was just WIPED out afterwards and in a state of heavy fatigue. I accepted that I had severely overtrained and *tried* to rest for a few weeks, but then of course invites came up on the weekend and I still climbed on the weekend. I mostly brought myself back in to decent shape again by late June.

I logged many climbs in that time and finally by August I was able to realize the "superman" feeling the describe in the book. I had cardio endurance, I had more strength than I ever had in my life, and I could recover quickly. I was able to check off two of the grade IV routes I had been writing down on my weekly log all winter. Due to not bringing crampons and having to find a way off at night one of those climbs turned in to a 27 hour push c2c. I only took a whopping 3 days to recover after that. The training worked, no way I could have accomplished that before.

The biggest thing that I took from last year was to take recovery and rest seriously. Do not just try to run in the upper end of Z1 all the time. After the nights of 2hr bouldering and 90 minutes of strength I should have been doing recovery hikes, not running with a 145bpm heart rate. This year I'll be keeping that in mind and hopefully catch myself earlier when I do over reach.
Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
climbing coastie wrote:I'm in week 7 of the Transition phase. I have a climbing trip planned for mid December and plan on extending the Transition to 10 weeks as I will use the taper to rest before my trip. Going through the Base planning phase it gives me a Week 1 schedule (pg 248) and it makes since with the graph above it. My question is when I start to increase my workout time should I keep the same relative schedule and make my workouts longer or do I add some Zone 1 into some of my off/recovery time?
I think that depends on how long your sessions are, how many Z1 days do you have and how long are each of them?

I think it's more important to have more frequent Z1 days than extended sessions. For my first couple weeks of transition I have a few 20 minutes runs during the week, so when I bump time I will do so by taking these to 30 minutes. Later in the transition I will add another short day (probably a Z2, I don't like starting out with that from the get go). Once it's the base phase I'll have more slots that are simply recovery (mornings after strength).
climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 95

Right now I have four Zone 1 workouts a week and one Zone 2.

Monday: AM 50 min of box steps Zone 1
Tuesday AM 50 min of box steps / PM 30-40 min Zone 1
Wednesday: AM 30-40 min of box steps Zone 2
One long Zone 1 over the weekend

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651
climbing coastie wrote:Right now I have four Zone 1 workouts a week and one Zone 2. Monday: AM 50 min of box steps Zone 1 Tuesday AM 50 min of box steps / PM 30-40 min Zone 1 Wednesday: AM 30-40 min of box steps Zone 2 One long Zone 1 over the weekend
I would add time to one of the current shorter work outs if you have that many in the week already. How have you lot lost your mind with all that box stepping!?

If you do have any rolling hills nearby I found that running them was very helpful on the downhill, really seemed to help get the quads ready for descents. On all my conditioning hikes I carried water and dumped it at the top, but when it came time to start doing actual climbs I never had the post climb muscle stiffness in the quads. I attribute a good portion of that to the eccentric force from running downhill. Since I wrote this on an internet forum it MUST be true.
Ryan R · · East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 15

House and Johnston did an awesome job on the book. I've been using it since it came out. Super well written, and chock full of good information. The info on training zones for me helped a lot, and has helped me climb better. The nutrition section also was very useful for me, in addition, and also helped me to cut back, and help me fuel better.

DesertRat · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 196

How about altitude?

I've noticed when I am training at altitude (ascending from 9300ft to 11000ft) that my heart rate is noticeably higher. There isn't really a way to keep it under my Zone1/Zone2 threshold, and if I am moving at all it seems to be in zone3. I understand that this is my sympathetic nervous system kicking in, and that with additional time at altitude that my heart rate would come down, but how do I account for this. Do I count this as all zone3?

According to Polar, there is usually a 10% increase in heart rate for every 1000m(3280ft) above 1500m(4920ft), which is about what I'm seeing. So is it just difficult to conduct a zone1 or zone 2 training at altitude?

Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45

@desertrat:
Since you live near 7000 ft, working out at those elevations (9-11K) shouldn't change things too much. Since working out in the mountains is more fun and exciting than a normal workout at home or in the gym, I suspect that you just have a hard time holding back, when you know you could go faster/harder.

WyomingSummits · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 0

How do you know he lives at 7k? I must have missed that....You're right though, living at 7 and training at 9 shouldn't change things much.

Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45
WyomingSummits wrote:How do you know he lives at 7k? I must have missed that....You're right though, living at 7 and training at 9 shouldn't change things much.
I know where he lives from some of his posts in the Arizona forums. I'd be interested in some additional heart rate information about the situation though. That might bring out some more discussion.
DesertRat · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 196

Tom has a good point, though my HR still seems high. I'm out of town now, but will post up some numbers when I get home. I need to get up and get a few more sets of data to confirm the trend as well.

aa-lex · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 15

For those of you who have used the self assessment test, what kinds of rest did you do between exercises? Saw this asked upthread but didn't see any replies.

I'm sure there is some reasonable variation in how it is applied, but my ability to perform on each test will change sharply if I bang them all out with no rest vs. considerable rest.

Tom Nyce · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 45
aa-lex wrote:For those of you who have used the self assessment test, what kinds of rest did you do between exercises? Saw this asked upthread but didn't see any replies. I'm sure there is some reasonable variation in how it is applied, but my ability to perform on each test will change sharply if I bang them all out with no rest vs. considerable rest.
My interpretation was that each test should be your maximum at that specific task, so the tests shouldn't interfere with each other. They could even be done on different days, IMHO.
5of8 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

This is a Reddit link that Scott Johnston contributed to. He explains the test pretty well and the ideas behind it.

reddit.com/r/alpinism/comme…

SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

Is anyone ready to put up difficult new routes on 7,000m+ preferably unclimbed mountains? Would love to find a few partners!

aa-lex · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 15
SirTobyThe3rd wrote:Is anyone ready to put up difficult new routes on 7,000m+ preferably unclimbed mountains? Would love to find a few partners!
Well....I *thought* about the fitness tests and completed one of them. I am pretty sure this qualifies me to do such a thing.
aa-lex · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 15

And thanks for the responses people!

SirTobyThe3rd M · · Salt Lake City · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 2,100

Never doubt yourself. Buy a gopro and go big.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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