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Planned Seasonal Closure of Clear Creek Canyon (formerly "Clear Creek Bolting Ban?")

Patrik · · Third rock from Sun · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30
Tzilla Rapdrilla wrote:Here's more from the 2007 Bald Eagle Management Guidelines from the US Fish and Wildlife Service: ... If the activity will be visible or highly audible from the nest, maintain a 330-foot buffer during the breeding season, particularly where eagles are unaccustomed to such activity." ...
If anyone is trying to put together some factual statements as a reply to proposals for excessive closures (1/2 mile or 1 mile has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I don't know what they are actually proposing), Eldo is a local example of where this 330ft rule (referred to by Tzilla) appears to be applied and working. Every year the "upper pitches between Naked Edge and Anthill Direct" are closed (5-6 routes or so). I guess there's a nest back in the Redguard corner. Occasionally Shirttail is closed, but in this case they still keep the Rincon area open. I (and I guess most climbers) can happily live with such limited closures applied to Clear Creek.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,705
Patrik wrote: If anyone is trying to put together some factual statements as a reply to proposals for excessive closures (1/2 mile or 1 mile has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but I don't know what they are actually proposing), Eldo is a local example of where this 330ft rule (referred to by Tzilla) appears to be applied and working. Every year the "upper pitches between Naked Edge and Anthill Direct" are closed (5-6 routes or so). I guess there's a nest back in the Redguard corner. Occasionally Shirttail is closed, but in this case they still keep the Rincon area open. I (and I guess most climbers) can happily live with such limited closures applied to Clear Creek.
Eldo is falcons, not Eagles. There are eagles on USFS land in Bocan and a few roving pairs in the Flatirons/OSMP. The closures there are variable.
The BCC and Access Fund have requested to meet with JCOS staff with regards to this point. One JCOS staff member has said in writing that the actual closures will be much smaller that that "potential closure" map. We will see what they come up with next week.
I'm going to put together an information/feedback/concerns/gripe session to be hosted by the BCC and Access Fund on the evening of the 8th or 9th, depending on venue availability. We can let you know how our first meeting went with the county by then, I hope.
I'll post here as soon as I get more details put together.
Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

From JCOS:

"In order to clear up misconceptions around seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon in 2016, JCOS staff has been working to refine the information we are making available to the climbing community.

The Jefferson County Open Space system and Clear Creek Canyon maps that were displayed at Thursday’s meeting included information that was not conveyed properly. The maps showed areas of potential seasonal closures and included both active raptor nests and inactive (alternate) nests. According to Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW), an active nest is “any nest that is frequented or
occupied by a raptor during the breeding season, or which has been active in any of the five previous breeding seasons” (Recommended Buffer Zones and Seasonal Restrictions for Colorado Raptors). In preparing for potential seasonal closures in 2016, we first looked at the location of all known nests, both active and inactive, in relation to climbing in Clear Creek and across the Jeffco Open Space system. The maps shown at Thursday’s meeting represent that first level of analysis.

Based on the confusion around seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon, we’ve been working diligently to refine the closure maps so that we may provide the climbing community with more accurate information as to what Clear Creek Canyon park areas, and subsequently rock climbing areas, we intend to close to protect raptor habitat. We’ve refined the closure maps based on applicable Federal, State, and Local laws and guidelines and institutional knowledge of our current pairs of nesting eagles to determine the spatial extent of the 2016 seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon. We still need to conduct similar analyses for all other raptor nests across the JCOS system in order to refine the spatial extent of all seasonal closures.

We are aware of two pairs of Golden Eagles that nest on JCOS property in Clear Creek Canyon, and we intend to close areas around the active nests during the 2016 breeding season. CPW recommends “No surface occupancy (beyond that which historically occurred in the area) within ¼ mile radius of active
nests” and “seasonal restriction to human encroachment within ½ mile radius of active nests....” Our staff used GPS data, Lidar Data, and ArcGIS spatial analyses to determine the bounds of the closed areas. The preliminary map shown on Thursday, November 19th highlighted a number of potential seasonal
closures around both active and inactive nests; we’ve reduced the spatial extent of those areas to include only a polygon around the active nesting sites in the canyon. Our seasonal closure areas now cover an area that includes a ¼ mile radius around the active nests and portions of the viewshed that fall
within a ½ mile radius of the active nests.

The two areas we intend to close in Clear Creek Canyon, shown on the attached maps, encompass the active eagle nests. If the Clear Creek eagles continue to nest in the active nests, these areas will remain closed from February 1 through July 31. If the eagles choose different nesting sites in 2016, the closures will be adjusted accordingly to protect those eagles during their breeding season.

Currently, rock climbing areas that fall inside of the seasonal raptor closures include:

Blonde Formation
Bumbling Stock
Evil Area
Ghost Crag
Highlander
Merlin
New River Wall
Point Break
Rapids Rock
Skinny Legs
Stumbling Block
Tetanus Garden
Twitch Rock"

The updated initial raptor nest anticipated closures for 2016.

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

I have to strongly agree with Mark Anderson's (monomaniac) last post. I will comment on the ridiculous guideline requiring rappelling to descend a route. List under Fixed Hardware Guidelines "Rappel from fixed anchors in place of being lowered. Lowering on fixed hardware induces unnecessary wear and tear, requiring more frequent replacement of gear. Reference regulation: C17. Hazardous activity."

Making rules on how a climber can descend a route (rappelling but not lowering) severely compromises the safety of a climber & is difficult to impossible on radically overhanging routes. I believe JCOS is opening itself to a lawsuit should anyone get hurt or even fined. The penalty for lowering could be a $125.00 under the hazardous activity regulation.

I strongly recommend lowering off most one pitch climbs that have good top anchors (sport or trad). I am disappointed by guidebooks that recommend rappelling to save wear on the anchors. I addressed that issue on page 16 of "Golden Rock Climbs". "Lowering vs. Rappelling from the top anchors has caused some debate. I recommend lowering off one pitch climbs in most circumstances. Threading the anchor is faster & also safer. ...It is very difficult to sometimes impossible to clean severely overhung routes via rappel. Lowering allows the climber to run a carbiner over the rope that is running through the quickdraws. This allows the climber to pull into the wall to clean the quick draws. ...If it is raining, you're cold from the wind, tired or in the dark, saving time is everything." Threading the rope & tieing back in is much faster & safer than rappelling.

In 2008 at the Golden Cliffs, Ken Trout replaced many top anchors with winch (mussy) hooks to discourage lowering & allow for quick lowering. Just clip in & lower. He had seen near accidents & a girl trying to unweight her daisy chain at a hanging stance void of footholds.

In 2001 at Happy Hour Crag in Boulder Canyon, there was a fatal rappelling accident off Dementia. The climber who was wearing a down jacket, clipped only one side of the rope into his rap carbiner & fell to his death. Since I started climbing in 1972, it has been documented that more accidents happen rappelling than climbing.

Anchor wear is a serious problem with coldshuts because they can't be backed up. Most Fixe rap ring anchors see very little wear over decades, because the rings can spin. If they become worn, then they can easily be backed up with a carbiner or quicklink through the hanger. Chains can be backed up by adding a carbiner or quicklink to the next chain link up from the bottom worn link.

I have replaced many worn top anchors at the Golden Cliffs & elsewhere. 90% of them were coldshuts. I only replaced two pairs of rings. One pair I had put on a very popular 5.9 six years before. Both sets of rings were from a 1996 batch that had a dent in the welding material joining the ends of the rings. This dent sat on the hanger allowing a groove to form in one spot on the opposite side of the ring (180 degrees around the ring). Most rings have a flush weld.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,705

OK, some developing news.
As alluded to earlier, the Access Fund is now involved.
I was on a call with several parties today and some highlights that have come out of their discussions with JCOS so far are:

#0) (edit to add) the Rapping thing was not intended to be and will not be a rule it has been unambiguously stated that the language on the first draft was misleading and will be changed.

#1) The Eagle closure map was a rough draft. It was the possible areas of closure before assessing which nests are active and their actual view sheds. A redraft of that document is underway and we are told it will be much much smaller. When that becomes possible, it will be shared. Monitor here for a post. (Edit to add:) See the post immediately above, which was drafted while I drafted this, perhaps that is more complete and perhaps it is still up for discussion or review.

#2) The public comment period has been moved out to Dec 14. We are told that there will be a redraft of the plan after that which will be reviewed again prior to being presented for a vote.

#3) The Access Fund was welcomed to a meeting with the concerned parties in Jeffco next week. they will be looking into the entire set of proposals. The A.F. has asked me to set up a public meeting after that time to help solicit more comments after that meeting is complete and we know more about what may change. I'll probably set it for the 8th or 9th depending on venue availability. I will try to make it in Golden. meanwhile, please keep the thoughts coming here and we're reading them, so as to incorporate them into that meeting. As well, Jeffco folks do read this.

#4) There was apparently surprise on the part of some of the Jeffco folks that the Access Fund was not already involved. Perhaps this was a thing were everyone thought someone else had asked them to be, but nobody did. Anyway, they are now.

#5) The BCC will discuss as a board how involved we can realistically get involved in this at our public board meeting on Dec 2nd. 10 minutes of an already full agenda of a 2 hour meeting will go to this discussion. If you really want to attend check our FB page or Website for details and come on in and introduce yourself. Our meetings are open to attendance, and comment/speaking if time on the agenda, but next week will be tight.

#6) There is a movement underway to organize Golden climbers for a response to this and future things like this. If you are seriously interested, post up here and I'm sure the folks organizing can find you that way!

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
Leo Paik wrote:From JCOS: "In order to clear up misconceptions around seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon in 2016, JCOS staff has been working to refine the information we are making available to the climbing community. The Jefferson County Open Space system and Clear Creek Canyon maps that were displayed at Thursday’s meeting included information that was not conveyed properly. The maps showed areas of potential seasonal closures and included both active raptor nests and inactive (alternate) nests. According to Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW), an active nest is “any nest that is frequented or occupied by a raptor during the breeding season, or which has been active in any of the five previous breeding seasons” (Recommended Buffer Zones and Seasonal Restrictions for Colorado Raptors). In preparing for potential seasonal closures in 2016, we first looked at the location of all known nests, both active and inactive, in relation to climbing in Clear Creek and across the Jeffco Open Space system. The maps shown at Thursday’s meeting represent that first level of analysis. Based on the confusion around seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon, we’ve been working diligently to refine the closure maps so that we may provide the climbing community with more accurate information as to what Clear Creek Canyon park areas, and subsequently rock climbing areas, we intend to close to protect raptor habitat. We’ve refined the closure maps based on applicable Federal, State, and Local laws and guidelines and institutional knowledge of our current pairs of nesting eagles to determine the spatial extent of the 2016 seasonal closures in Clear Creek Canyon. We still need to conduct similar analyses for all other raptor nests across the JCOS system in order to refine the spatial extent of all seasonal closures. We are aware of two pairs of Golden Eagles that nest on JCOS property in Clear Creek Canyon, and we intend to close areas around the active nests during the 2016 breeding season. CPW recommends “No surface occupancy (beyond that which historically occurred in the area) within ¼ mile radius of active nests” and “seasonal restriction to human encroachment within ½ mile radius of active nests....” Our staff used GPS data, Lidar Data, and ArcGIS spatial analyses to determine the bounds of the closed areas. The preliminary map shown on Thursday, November 19th highlighted a number of potential seasonal closures around both active and inactive nests; we’ve reduced the spatial extent of those areas to include only a polygon around the active nesting sites in the canyon. Our seasonal closure areas now cover an area that includes a ¼ mile radius around the active nests and portions of the viewshed that fall within a ½ mile radius of the active nests. The two areas we intend to close in Clear Creek Canyon, shown on the attached maps, encompass the active eagle nests. If the Clear Creek eagles continue to nest in the active nests, these areas will remain closed from February 1 through July 31. If the eagles choose different nesting sites in 2016, the closures will be adjusted accordingly to protect those eagles during their breeding season. Currently, rock climbing areas that fall inside of the seasonal raptor closures include: Blonde Formation Bumbling Stock Evil Area Ghost Crag Highlander Merlin New River Wall Point Break Rapids Rock Skinny Legs Stumbling Block Tetanus Garden Twitch Rock"
Thanks for sharing Leo. It's good to hear that the closure has been presented in writing. May I ask who wrote this? It doesn't appear on JeffCo's website. Perhaps you could forward the email to Tony B so he can share it with the Access Fund's bird specialists.

Unfortunately the new closure is worse in some ways. Yesterday we were under the impression Highlander, New River Wall, etc would only be closed for the month of February. Now it seems they will be closed for half the year. I believe our work is not done on this issue. In particular there are crags on this list that are quite short, sheltered from the view-shed, or virtually below road level that should be excluded from closure (I'm thinking specifically of Twitch, Rapids Rock and New River Wall, but there may be others). For example, it's hard to imagine how a climber on Sonic Youth would interfere with the eagles nest' when s/he is 10 feet lower and several hundred yards further away than a gravel truck jake-braking down Hwy 6.
Joey Wolfe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,020

Thanks y'all for staying on this. If we are getting some kind of Jeffco climbers group together please count me in.

Tzilla Rapdrilla · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 955

Another factor that should be mentioned is that literally tens of millions of dollars are being spent on the Peaks to Plains bike trail through CCC that would also run right through the same piece of real estate slated for closure. It would seem to be an egregious waste of tax dollars to construct a bike/pedestrian trail that would then have to be closed. Sounds like a bridge to nowhere to me. Parts of the trail could be closed, but most of the utility of the trail would be defeated if one couldn't ride from say Golden to Georgetown. Personally, I would like to see the trail built as it will facilitate access to some crags and I'd like to ride the trail, but if the trail's open then the crags need to be too.

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

I have always viewed the Peaks to Plains trails in the canyon as creating significant impacts & forever changing rarely visited, untrampeled areas along the river corridor. I have always viewed climbers as creating minimal impacts & none to many spots that the trail will go. Regardless of how you feel about the Peaks to Plains Trail, it contradicts the concerns of JCOS has about the impacts of new route development. As a user group, climbers become the scapegoat for addressing impacts. We get singled out & targeted by land managers, for creating serious impacts that need heavy handed regulations to mitigate. I am not saying we don't create impacts, but they will be minor compared to the construction of the trail. Consider all the crags & new routes developed over the past 25 years, that are rarely visited. These areas are very low impact. The need for a fixed hardware review process is a knee jerk reaction to the growth of our sport & the impacts JCOS sees at the most popular crags.

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

After reviewing the CMP, I have lost the positive attitude I left last Thursday's meeting with. JCOS assured us of a fixed hardware review process that would not be as cumbersome as in the Flatirons or Eldorado. A process that could possibly be streamlined & more flexible.

There is much in the CMP that wasn't discussed. For example: the practice of leaving quickdraws on a route to project it. Certainly, climbers could have a lively debate over this issue. What route are you leaving draws on? For how long? Certain climbs were done for decades without fixed draws, but today may have fixed draws on them. When are fixed draws necessary? How long of a grace period should be allowed before removing someone's draws off a route?

This discussion & decisions should be left to climbers to decide in Clear Creek. Now it will be regulated by JCOS. See Fixed Hardware Guidelines " Permanent fixed draws and slings are prohibited. Reference regulation: C29. Abandoned property.

A permit could be issued to leave draws on a route for 30 days. See Permitting "Temporary synthetic fixed draws and slings for "projecting routes"where leaving temporary gear is required for safety may be permitted to be left for a maximum of 30 days (incidents where safety is impaired due to weather related issues, injuries, etc. will be excused). Permanent synthetic draws and slings are not permitted."

Does this mean that permanent chain or cable draws on severely overhung routes will be permitted? I guess I need some more clarity on this issue.

Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

Mark (Mono) A., I got this raptor closure update from JeffCo OS by signing up to be on their climbing email list. You can (and I encourage all interested folks to do so) to contact them (as I did) by emailing climbing@jeffco.us and asking to be put on the list. The info came as 2 .pdf files which I basically copied and pasted onto this forum in my last post. The map I asked my friend Ron Keller to convert into a .jpg file so I could post it on mp.com. I don't know who exactly wrote this, but I suspect it was a collaborative effort by the folks at JeffCo OS.

Mark A., I see your points about the raptor closures; however, I think you're posting the worst case scenario. As I understood from the meeting, they will initially close the smaller closure areas (see the map on page 6) and open whatever they can dependent on which nests these golden eagle choose. Perhaps, one of the best ways to expedite this process is to volunteer in raptor observation. Jim Liles at JeffCo OS may be a good person to contact. I hope to carve out enough free time to help there, too.

Tod A., this Peak to Plains trail project is way, way bigger than than JeffCo OS and CCC climbing. The big picture is to connect DIA with Glenwood Springs or Grand Junction. This is part of Hickenlooper's "Get Outdoors" program. A big part of the funds come from GOCO (the lottery ticket sales) and the 0.5% sales tax. It doesn't come from property taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, FICA, or the like. JeffCo OS has some input in the small section of this going through JeffCo OS lands. I'm told they're contracting the work to an engineering company.

Mark R., your points about project draws, lowering, chains, etc. are excellent points where we can and will have input in refining the climbing management plan...if we work collaboratively. That 1st meeting was time limited, we had the room for only 2 hours. There wasn't enough time to get into all the details then. Hey, we climbers even got into discussing bathrooms then. There's plenty more to discuss for sure. Let's get involved directly with JeffCo OS to shape this into as useable a management plan as possible.

Note, for all, we climbers are a part of this whole management plan. We are not being singled out in a negative way. This is not a knee jerk reaction. It's something that's been coming for years, if not more, as Mark R. noted at the meeting where he recalled earlier climbing management plan versions from ~2006. We're actually being encouraged to get involved and give input. We're being asked to recreate deliberately, responsibly, and cooperatively in our shared Jefferson County Open Space.

Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000
Tzilla Rapdrilla wrote:Another factor that should be mentioned is that literally tens of millions of dollars are being spent on the Peaks to Plains bike trail through CCC that would also run right through the same piece of real estate slated for closure. It would seem to be an egregious waste of tax dollars to construct a bike/pedestrian trail that would then have to be closed. Sounds like a bridge to nowhere to me. Parts of the trail could be closed, but most of the utility of the trail would be defeated if one couldn't ride from say Golden to Georgetown. Personally, I would like to see the trail built as it will facilitate access to some crags and I'd like to ride the trail, but if the trail's open then the crags need to be too.
It is likely that certain crags will be closed when this trail is being constructed & possibly afterwards. As Leo Paik points out, the trail is bigger than Jeffco, but it has some input into the trail on JCOS lands. I think climbers should be concerned.

Check out Fiscal Cliff in Clear Creek, on this site. The crag has been closed for the construction of the trail that runs directly under the crag. Heavy rock scaling was done of rocks that weren't unstable, according to Derek Peavey. Removing the rocks caused a lot of dirt to wash down over the crag. This crag will probably be permanently closed, because the bike trail is directly below it.

The Fiscal Cliff is in Clear Creek County, so Jeffco has nothing to do with it. It makes me wonder what will be the fate of other crags down the canyon like the River Wall.
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

Always a bummer, but these sort of things do happen. One of my Glenwood Canyon FA's saw some serious retro-drilling in the form of an I-70 tunnel entrance...

Kirk Miller · · Catalina, AZ and Ilwaco, WA · Joined May 2003 · Points: 1,824

Betcha the trail is never closed.

Like cars, semi trucks, gamblers, etc. they'll more than likely allow tourists to use the canyon (trail) regardless of any nesting activity.
Gambler trash, gold panning, hiking, biking, horesback riding, hunting, rafting, tubing and all other touron approved activities will probably continue. Of course.

Sounds like closures will be widespread and extensive for crags and climbers though.
Route development will come to a virtual standstill, for sure.
Better not let 'em catch ya removing that offending death block.
Or worse... lowering from anchors instead of rapping!!!!

Who let the wonks out?

Guess we're just not a significant user group... more a thorn in their sides.

Mike C · · Co · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,046

....That's why I am gonna name my new climb up there.....Josey Wales. You would think the motives for all this nonsense would be to cordially limit impacts on our precious earth....the birds will adapt, just like wildlife does for the game commissions.....closing cliffs for birds vs anchor and fixed hardware concerns? I believe the system was working fine without any closures or committee s.....wouldn't y'all rather be out climbing? Do we have some bored ,washed up climbers looking for something to do or what? Micro managing?

Through common sense,unity,communication,and respect anything can be done. The impacts here to justify all this jeffco policy initiative have definitely been blown out of proportion so that a select few can find some brief political solutions to problems miniscule in comparison to the other environmental impacts.

I wonder how the birds feel about how humans are raping the land with asphalt,concrete,rebar,radiation,carbon monoxide,toxic fuel,honking horns, cranking croch rockets,grumbling Harleys,screaming tourists,hurried and cracked out gamblers.......seasonal closures and fixed hardware ? How about less talk more climbing. Are there any climbers here that actually climb .....any of you ever been dive bombed by a raptor. Trust me when I tell you, they are excellent communicators!:) They will set their own policies and boundaries.....did anyone ask the birds how they feel?

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
mike c wrote:...the birds will adapt...
How convenient of you to think so.
Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

Hopefully more climbers are reading this thread. JCOS is reading this thread & thus it serves as climber input into their Climbing Management Plan. Everyone should take notice of Monitoring & Compliance in the draft CMP. "Unpermitted fixed hardware will be removed immediately". This is one way JCOS intends to enforce its ban on unregulated bolting (bolting without a permit).

This is a waste of public monetary resources. Hiring rangers to remove bolts it is waste of taxpayer money that fund JCOS through sales tax revenue.
I think anyone who lives or climbs in Jeffco needs to understand how public funds will be spent. When bolts are removed by rangers it will likely receive negative mass media attention. Does anyone remember the bolt removal by Boulder County rangers at Bummers Rock in the 1995 & the negative article in the Boulder Weekly?

JCOS has decided in order to mitigate the impacts of climbing that a fixed hardware review committee is necessary. A review process will also take time & money to implement. Sending rangers out to look to every proposed new crag development & doing pre-mitigation on untraveled areas is no small task.

I have to look at numerous climbing areas, I have visited to see how impacts have been well mitigated in far more sensitive & erosion prone environments. Amazing trails & staging areas exist at many popular crags throughout the west. Areas that have no fixed hardware ban or hardware review process. No regulations on leaving quickdraws or rappelling. For example look at Smith Rock State Park in Oregon, the birth place of sport climbing in the USA.

Public resources would be better spent building trails, improving staging areas at the base of the crags & putting in a few solar composting toilets, than to waste time micro managing individual climbers.

Monty · · Golden, CO · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 3,520
Mark Rolofson wrote:Hopefully more climbers are reading this thread. JCOS is reading this thread & thus it serves as climber input into their Climbing Management Plan.
If you really want to provide input you can simply email climbing@jeffco.us so they don't have to sift through the rants on MP. Definitely a better use of our tax money ;)

Mark Rolofson wrote:"Unpermitted fixed hardware will be removed immediately". This is one way JCOS intends to enforce its ban on unregulated bolting (bolting without a permit). This is a waste of public monetary resources. Hiring rangers to remove bolts it is waste of taxpayer money that fund JCOS through sales tax revenue. I think anyone who lives or climbs in Jeffco needs to understand how public funds will be spent. When bolts are removed by rangers it will likely receive negative mass media attention.
Then don't put in hardware without a permit. The last thing they want to do is chop rogue bolts, so don't waste your time and money and they won't have to waste theirs. Honestly, if your willing to labor for hours on a rogue route, I think you have some bigger personal problems to sort out. If the route is worth bolting, it is worth making sure that there is a sustainable approach to it. That is the whole point of the process; get ahead of the impact. Yes that requires resources, but rehabbing a climber designed fall line trail takes a lot more resources. At some point in time, someone is going to get paid to lay out a trail to that cliff, so it may as well be now.

Mark Rolofson wrote:JCOS has decided in order to mitigate the impacts of climbing that a fixed hardware review committee is necessary. A review process will also take time & money to implement. Sending rangers out to look to every proposed new crag development & doing pre-mitigation on untraveled areas is no small task. I have to look at numerous climbing areas, I have visited to see how impacts have been well mitigated in far more sensitive & erosion prone areas. Amazing trails & staging areas exists at many popular crags throughout the west. Areas that have no fixed hardware ban or hardware review process. No regulations on leaving quickdraws or rappelling. For example look at Smith Rock State Park in Oregon, the birth place of sport climbing in the USA. Public resources would be better spent building trails, improving staging areas at the base of the crags & putting in a few solar composting toilets, than to waste time micro managing individual climbers.
Areas like Smith and Shelf are much easier resources to manage as they are essentially long cliff lines. When new routes go in, they generally can be accessed by the established trail system that follows the base of the main cliff line. Places like Clear Creek are much more challenging to manage as there multiple parking pullouts, and no central trail system that accesses the majority of the cliffs. I think it is perfectly reasonable to require the permit process as it will slow down the amount of new crags being developed allowing Jeffco to focus on rehabbing what is already there. Think about if we applied this same idea to tackle urban sprawl. It'd be great if there was a building moratorium put in place that forced developers to focus on rehabbing what is all ready in place. If an area is worth developing, it will be done in a sustainable, thought out manner. This really doesn't sound that bad right?

I agree that resources need to be spent on improving staging areas, and rehabbing the existing trail systems, but currently they are chasing a moving target and it must be daunting. I believe that Jeffco has already hired the front range climbing stewards for improvement projects in CCC next summer.

Hopefully the "rappelling" and "fixed draw" guidelines will be nixed after the public comments are in. PLEASE SEND IN YOUR COMMENTS!

I know it's not the wild west we are use to, but I really don't think the bolting regulations are as bad as many folks are making them out to be. There have been a lot of arguments made that their are greater impacts in the canyon that need to be addressed, and I agree, but that doesn't mean we don't need to manage our impacts too.
Mark Rolofson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,000

Monty, it isn't just a question of whether I agree to follow the new bolting regulations. I feel that not everyone will. Resources can be better spent than trying to stop the long tradition of unregulated bolting. I am sure there are other climbers who won't follow the new regulation.

Secondly. North Table Mtn is included in the CMP & much like Smith Rock & Shelf Road, it is one long, continuous cliffband with a trail around most of it. Where there isn't a trail along the base, the vegetation is pretty tough. It is amazing what has grown back in the popular belay zones, after the summer & fall months of low or no use.

In Clear Creek, I feel it is a waste of resources to police every new crag before it is developed. A lot of obscure crags get very few visits & have minimal impacts. It amazes me how concerned JCOS is about policing future possible impacts, when its taken them decades to address the erosion impacts at the most popular crags. Often, this would mean improving only short sections of a trail. This doesn't give me much confidence, that any proposal to develop a new crag, will get fast approval. It could be very slow, maybe taking years.

Trying to compare route development to urban sprawl is huge mistake. One that Monty is making. Comparing hundred or thousands of homes & buildings, roads, miles of water & sewer pipes, electric & natural gas lines, etc. to protection bolts on a rock face is an silly exaggeration. It's so laughable, I am surprised anyone would go there. Climbers impacts don't present the same dire consequences to this state & planet as urban development.

Lastly, I am working on a long response to the CMP. JCOS is already monitoring this site. Hopefully more climbers will see this thread if we keep it alive. Unlike Monty, who is ready to roll over like good pup, this big dog ain't giving in without a fight.

Mike C · · Co · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,046

......so I see the focus is back on fixed hardware. The birds are not gonna be pleased:)
Marc , that's why names like kleptocracy were established. Sounds like a clear waste of public money and time to charge/justify for something handling itself through general climber unity for no expense to the already overtaxed.
Is someone trying to justify some fund destination or what? You know what sounds like a good name for this tronsight is did the other day, Nepotistic agenda annihilator.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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