Life Insurance and Climbing
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I put this in the CO thread because I gotta believe there are plenty of people in this state that have explored getting life insurance while at the same time being climbers. |
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Good luck with purchasing life insurance. I was able to purchase a $500K, 30 year term policy last year for the same reasons most adults do. I want to provide financial protection for my family. I was truthful about my climbing and they did not increase their rates for me. I've heard stories where only rock climbers can still get good rates. If you ice, alpine, or high altitude climb, there is no way to afford it. |
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Even the folks who offer life insurance through the AAC are woefully uninformed about climbing. The conversation sounded something like this: |
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James M Schroeder wrote:Even the folks who offer life insurance through the AAC are woefully uninformed about climbing. The conversation sounded something like this: Underwriter: How many climbs do you do in a year? Me: What constitutes a climb? Underwriter: Uhhhh... Me: If it's everytime I leave the ground then it's 100's. But that's not an accurate picture of the risk I take. I might tie in twenty times for a day of top-roping at my local crag - does that count as 20 climbs? I also just did the Cathedral Traverse in the Tetons, how many climbs does that count as? One? Underwriter: They all count. Me: Okay then it's hundreds. Underwriter: Do you ever climb without a rope? Me: Yes, but only on short routes or routes well within my ability, where either consequences and/or likelihood of a fall are infinitesimal. Underwriter: So you climb without a rope? Me: Yes. Underwriter: Do you ice climb? Me: Yes, but again, to illustrate a point, if I am top-roping a 40ft. frozen waterfall I am taking more risk on the way to the route than I am taking on the route - even if I climb it 20 times that day. Underwriter: So you ice climb? Me: Yes. Underwriter: Have you been to over 13,000 feet in the last year? Me: Yes, in the Tetons. But again, I can drive to over 14,000 feet in Colorado, so why is some arbitrary number the cutoff? Underwriter: Okay, I have what I need, I'll get back to you in a few days. I never heard back from them. You'd think the insurance company that works with the AAC would be a little more knowledgeable, but they're not.I've come to the conclusion they just want yes or no answers so they can check off a box or not. Then they just plug it into their formula and a rate is determined. There is no professional judgement or decision making at all. Also, the insurance company through the AAC was awful. I tried contacting them several times, but no responses at all. Ended up somewhere else. |
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Ha I got the elevation question too. Do you climb to elevation? WTF does that even mean? |
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Brendan Magee wrote: I've come to the conclusion they just want yes or no answers so they can check off a box or not. Then they just plug it into their formula and a rate is determined. There is no professional judgement or decision making at all. Also, the insurance company through the AAC was awful. I tried contacting them several times, but no responses at all. Ended up somewhere else.I worked in the insurance industry. They can't exercise professional judgement. You aren't treated as an individual when you apply for life insurance. You fit in to a class of people relative to risk which includes health and lifestyle (climbing). |
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Gene S wrote: I worked in the insurance industry. They can't exercise professional judgement. You aren't treated as an individual when you apply for life insurance. You fit in to a class of people relative to risk which includes health and lifestyle (climbing).I realize it's not practical for every person to receive an individualized quote based on their behavior. I think the issue is they don't understand the sport and ask questions that don't make sense. They asked the OP what the average climb he does and listed aid climbing grades. The actuaries and underwriters should learn more about the sport so they can provide better service to the increasing class of climbers who want life insurance. |
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Lie through your teeth, then don't die for 2 years. After the first two years of coverage, the contesability period is up and the insurance company cannot deny your claim. |
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Brendan Magee wrote: I realize it's not practical for every person to receive an individualized quote based on their behavior. I think the issue is they don't understand the sport and ask questions that don't make sense. They asked the OP what the average climb he does and listed aid climbing grades. The actuaries and underwriters should learn more about the sport so they can provide better service to the increasing class of climbers who want life insurance.I think the point is they don't need to understand rock climbing. Insurance companies don't want risk. They want really healthy people who have a low probability of death. Things like driving, flying, and other common activities are already factored in to their pricing because pretty much everybody participates in those activities. Things like climbing are low participation activities and insurance companies would rather not have you on their books. I was asked some pretty dumb questions when I applied, but the point was not for them to better understand climbing, but to try to eliminate me based on max elevation, max YDS, and whether I use gear or not. |
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I had a decent experience with West Coast Insurance. I was probably 45 when I got my $500k 20 year term policy which runs me about $800/year. My high cholesterol hurt me more than climbing. They broke climbing down into broad categories, gym, rock, mountaineering or something along those lines and wanted to know how many days/year for each. I was covered for death by climbing even in the first two years. I was motivated to get insurance since I had a young daughter (not so young anymore). |
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David Houston wrote:I had a decent experience with West Coast Insurance. I was probably 45 when I got my $500k 20 year term policy which runs me about $800/year. My high cholesterol hurt me more than climbing. They broke climbing down into broad categories, gym, rock, mountaineering or something along those lines and wanted to know how many days/year for each. I was covered for death by climbing even in the first two years. I was motivated to get insurance since I had a young daughter (not so young anymore).Good to hear. Although for me I think $800/year sounds high. The $1,800/year I got was crazy! I'm 28 and healthy, no other reason beside the climbing to jack up that much. Like I said $30/mnth $360/year was about average for what I was being quoted by other companies. I think it'll be fine just going with one of the other companies. I just thought it was crazy how limited the conversation about our hobby was with these guys. |
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I posted some links on this subject a few months ago. If you search me or the theme they should come up. If I have a sec I will dig them up. |
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Drew_n wrote:I posted some links on this subject a few months ago. If you search me or the theme they should come up. If I have a sec I will dig them up. In essence, I found one good source: hinermangroup.com/blog But...the key is to just keep applying. It is clearly the relationship between the agent and the underwriter that matters (i.e. a chain is not likely to get you a good policy - an individual seems to be). Eventually, after multiple multi-thousand dollar quotes, I found someone who was reasonable ~$120 month for $1,000,000. There was no logical theme to the process except not accepting a poor offer. When agents would attempt to guilt-trip me for applying to different agents, I would simply respond, "What other multi thousand dollar investment do you not seek out multiple offers for?" Good luck!That is a pretty good deal. I am 45 and was quoted $87 per month for $250,000. I ended up going with $200,000 term insurance through my employer that didn't require any underwriting for $30 per month. |
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Group life is your best bet if available from your employer. It doesn't matter what you do then. Individual term and climbing results in high rates. I applied with several companies and quickly realized it was twice as expensive as the group plan available through my work. Don't lie on your application because the likelihood of being denied is high and your beneficiaries will be SOL. |