Vanishing Point, vanishing pro, vanishing holds

Question about the climb Vanishing Point at Ragged Mtn. I'm headed to Ragged tomorrow and thinking about trying to onsight this climb (so please, no beta) but I haven't made up my mind whether to do it or not.

Everything I read says something different about the amount of gear (fixed and otherwise), and the difficulty (supposedly a bunch of holds got broken off). The rating spans from 10a to 10c, and the gear rating spans from PG to R/X.

Can anyone tell me what it's like now? Does it have sufficient gear to be reasonably leadable? What kind of grade should I expect?

Thanks!

GO

hard 10, X and, no fixed gear. And Brian from RI on here knows the fixed gear beta and can help you figure out what you need to re-equip the route for a proper lead ascent.

And it used to be you could replace the fixed gear yourself however, I think RMF has tried or has banned that too. When I was on the board they ruled only the RMF board should replace the gear and then voted they should never replace the gear because it would be a liability. Even though it this was against the advice of the Access Fund which advocated for anonymous replacements. Most of us CT climbers are hoping now that the Access Fund gave them a second grant for $4000 to complete the purchase of the North End, maybe they will update their fixed anchor policies to be more in line with the Access Fund's positions as well as restore routes with fixed gear to their historical condition.

Gabe I backed off it ~25 years ago when I was a lot better/bolder then now. Just couldn't get any decent gear. That was before decent small cams but still....

You'll need to climb thru the harder sections unprotected. There is good gear above the crux, and the face below it is runout and committing. Gear requirements would be a full set C3s and TUCs, small wires, and cams to a #1 or #2 camalot for the top section. It might be seeping, we got about 1.5 inches of rain last night and things don't dry quickly this time of year.

Plan for sustained sandbagged 10b/c climbing.

I thought you didn't want any beta ?

Solid CT 5.10

Do Ragged Edge too...

Hey Matt I forget, weren't you the one that pushed to make it against the rules for climbers to replace the fixed gear themselves as it was historically done?

And the dude said no beta...

john strand wrote:I thought you didn't want any beta ?

Is that directed at me, or at Matt (above)? If it's directed at me, then yeah, all I want is what a (up-to-date) guidebook would say, or even less than that.

Thanks for the info Morgan and Eric, that gives me all I need to know.

GO

Clever title btw

There is a current guidebook. You can get it at Prime Climb. Have fun, it's a proud ascent.

GabeO wrote: Is that directed at me, or at Matt (above)? If it's directed at me, then yeah, all I want is what a (up-to-date) guidebook would say, or even less than that. Thanks for the info Morgan and Eric, that gives me all I need to know. GO

I guess our versions of beta must vary.

Dana Bartlett wrote:Hey Matt I forget, weren't you the one that pushed to make it against the rules for climbers to replace the fixed gear themselves as it was historically done? Christ, Morgan, give it a rest will you. Especially with the personal attacks.

For an admin, this guy does seem pretty douchey ...

Morgan Patterson wrote:...And Brian from RI on here knows the fixed gear beta and can help you figure out what you need to re-equip the route for a proper lead ascent.

I don't know how my name got involved in this but I don't plan on installing any fixed gear at Ragged unless the RMF asked me to do it. That's just as bad as someone "uninstalling" the fixed gear without permission. We need to come to a consensus by (ideally) a climber's coalition. If the climbing community doesn't like the RMF policy then get enough like minded climbers to get elected to the RMF Board and change the policy.

john strand wrote: I guess our versions of beta must vary.

If your definition of "onsight" means not knowing the difficulty, name, or history of a climb, and just picking a line that looks good from the ground, and heading up it, then, yes. Our versions of beta vary.

To me, to onsight a climb, I want to know nothing about it beyond the grade, whether it's particularly poorly protected with modern gear, the general line it follows, and perhaps who did the FA. That's it, beyond what I can see from the ground. The only exception I'll sometimes make is knowing the range in gear sizes, especially for a multi-pitch route.

GO

When I saw this lead the belayer had on a pair of running shoes.

Brian wrote: I don't know how my name got involved in this but I don't plan on installing any fixed gear at Ragged unless the RMF asked me to do it. That's just as bad as someone "uninstalling" the fixed gear without permission. We need to come to a consensus by (ideally) a climber's coalition. If the climbing community doesn't like the RMF policy then get enough like minded climbers to get elected to the RMF Board and change the policy.

All I wrote was I think you knew the beta on fixed gear and might help someone looking to equip it for an ascent. I know I discussed the gear a few years back with someone and thought it was you. Nothing more...

Dana Bartlett wrote:Hey Matt I forget, weren't you the one that pushed to make it against the rules for climbers to replace the fixed gear themselves as it was historically done? Christ, Morgan, give it a rest will you. Especially with the personal attacks.

Not a personal attack at all... I think you're mis-characterizing. I just think its odd that they guy who is responsible for there NOT being any historical fixed gear being replaced would respond on this thread with beta that was not asked for.

If somebody asks if a climb is reasonably protected, and it isn't, it seems fair to tell them that they're probably facing a ground fall at the crux, and the general range of gear for their rack. I also think it does not seem fair to throw a single person under the bus for the lack of fixed gear on this climb or any climb at Ragged - as if Matt is the sole dissenting voice and your opinion represents all of CT climbing. I'm not sure what exactly an admins' responsibilities entail, but I would think/hope most admins would be active, thoughtful members of their climbing community, not area forum bullies.

George Maynard wrote:When I saw this lead the belayer had on a pair of running shoes.

George has it correct, a classic modified belay technique utilizing a good pair of running shoes is necessary to protect the crux.

For this climb the climber and the belayer might need a pair of Depends!

DontHassleMeImLocal wrote: Morgan is just bitter that he will never go down as one of CTs hardmen or prolific developers like Sam Streibert, Mike Heintz, Ken Nichols, Greg Shyloski, or Dan Yagmin. Instead he trolls MP, complaining about the RMF and imposing HIS view on everyone about bolts, often sounding like the polarized version of Ken. Oh the joys of the CT climbing “community”

Ha... I'm comfy with my climbing and my enjoyment of finding and developing new areas. The interest doesn't come from some vain aspiration.

From my conversations over the years I think most climbers in the state are on the same page re bolts and development and I share their views. I'm not sure where the 'imposing' my view on bolting fits into this or came from...

As for some sort of existential bitterness, I don't think you could be further off base, I enjoy the process of exploring new areas and doing new climbs and opening them up to the climbing community. That's what my volunteer work with the Access Fund is about... Further, I have often informed 'hard' climbers about cool hard projects I find, like say Desparate at West Rocks. I like to see the sport progressed and the areas to climb expanded and protected.

And I think the RMF mismanages quite a bit and I'm vocal about it... that view I certainly am obnoxiously loud about. But addmittedly I have had a negative dispostion in the last two years but that's from personal life issues not at all climbing related.

How did this move into a bolt, no bolt, anti RMF and personal attack thread. I thought it was all about sandbagging someone into on site leading vanishing point.

Did you get the onsite?