New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

Let's make it more clear - you seem to be suggesting that your group, and the YCA, are better suited to making a guidebook than me and a bunch of local climbers.

Let me state, once again, we are producing a comprehensive guide that builds on the substantial, long term effort of guidebooks, formally originating with George Meyers' "green" guide which was a loose leaf collection of topos. As far as I know, the original material for that guide existed in a binder kept at Camp 4 which went missing at some time.

Meyers' green guide transitioned to the "Yellow" guide (both were selects) and then to the Comprehensive Meyers/Reid guide and finally to the Reid guide.

This is a 40 year history (at this point). I was asked to join this effort, and agreed to abide by the terms of the collaboration.

As far as the local climbers, I believe we've been in touch with many of them, and would like to have their input. At times we've been "local" climbers too.

Whether or not we, as a community climbing in Yosemite Valley, can return to the days of the Camp 4 loose-leaf binder in a modern form is an open question. It appeared that Mountain Project might have been such a prototype. The success of MP did generate commercial interest, and the issues of "Intellectual Property" have made that information, the IP, a commodity. This is not surprising, it is the route taken by the original guidebook authors. The resources required to produce a guidebook raise many questions and challenges concerning both the investment in the guidebook and the return on those investments.

However this all unfolds, I believe we are looking for a way to steward the information into the future.

Come on Ed, you've been working on this for 7 or 8 years - show us something!

A couple months back Dan McDevitt and friends put up an, instantly repeated and acclaimed, route to the left of the new mega-classic Voyager on Fifi Buttress. Here's the topo for Center of the Universe and Beyond, as well as Voyager. It's hot here today - go get it!

Erik, I thought that you are in favor of a centralized storage / stewardship of the information (which would be submitted by local climbers, because they're the ones generating the information -- putting up the routes, drawing topos, etc), and that you suggested that the YCA be this steward.

Is this a misunderstanding on my part?

Yes Kent,

The National Park Service, via their Yosemite Climbing Ranger program, should be collecting any information about alterations to public lands(or new routes, haha) by climbers. Furthermore, climbers should be required to submit any new routes, or alterations, to the Climbing Ranger office here in Yosemite.

Yes, for sure I support the YCA keeping all the climbing artifacts - in the story I tell above I am enjoining Don Reid to donate the original topos folks have given him to the YCA.

Is that clear? I'm trying to get Ed, Clint, Eric, and Donny to share the information they are hording. I'm sharing some of the information that I've collected to show that this can be an awesome, community building process. Providing a word-document list of all the new routes is not helping folks go climbing.

But what about the current guidebook authors? Who has talked to Chris McNamara, Greg Barnes, Todd Snyder - are they psyched to fixed up their guide? Have they collected any information from the community, from folks who might have thought they were going to come out with a better, future edition?

Erik Sloan wrote:Yes Kent, The National Park Service, via their Yosemite Climbing Ranger program, should be collecting any information about alterations to public lands(or new routes, haha) by climbers. Furthermore, climbers should be required to submit any new routes, or alterations, to the Climbing Ranger office here in Yosemite. Yes, for sure I support the YCA keeping all the climbing artifacts - in the story I tell above I am enjoining Don Reid to donate the original topos folks have given him to the YCA. Is that clear? I'm trying to get Ed, Clint, Eric, and Donny to share the information they are hording. I'm sharing some of the information that I've collected to show that this can be an awesome, community building process. Providing a word-document list of all the new routes is not helping folks go climbing. But what about the current guidebook authors? Who has talked to Chris McNamara, Greg Barnes, Todd Snyder - are they psyched to fixed up their guide? Have they collected any information from the community, from folks who might have thought they were going to come out with a better, future edition?

I don't want the federal government to regulate, sort or document climbs. Climbing has been mostly successfully self-regulated for its history. They already have their wilderness rules with power drills, etc.. and I can understand that. But surely we don't want them to be the overseer of climbing in general on federal lands.

Keep the government out of climbing!

Erik Sloan wrote:Yes Kent, The National Park Service, via their Yosemite Climbing Ranger program, should be collecting any information about alterations to public lands(or new routes, haha) by climbers. Furthermore, climbers should be required to submit any new routes, or alterations, to the Climbing Ranger office here in Yosemite.

This is the most ludicrous thing I've read in this thread.

Healyje wrote: The ever-cheerful tone in the face of reality and the resilience of the ever-present sell is breathtaking in its consistency and borders on narcissistic sociopathy.

You are a pretty negative relentless dude.

Erik Sloan wrote:I'm trying to get Ed, Clint, Eric, and Donny to share the information they are hording. I'm sharing some of the information that I've collected to show that this can be an awesome, community building process.

So why not just post all of your collected info on Mountain Project? It will then be available as part of the MP app. You are already looking for folks here to donate photos, topos, etc. Why should they do that for an app you control and get proceeds from, instead of MP?

Why not post each route/topo/whatever to your website as you complete it under a Creative Commons license so folks can start now. Why hoard it until your app/guide is ready? How long does it take to become hoarding?

Erik Sloan wrote:Yes Kent, The National Park Service, via their Yosemite Climbing Ranger program, should be collecting any information about alterations to public lands(or new routes, haha) by climbers. Furthermore, climbers should be required to submit any new routes, or alterations, to the Climbing Ranger office here in Yosemite. Yes, for sure I support the YCA keeping all the climbing artifacts - in the story I tell above I am enjoining Don Reid to donate the original topos folks have given him to the YCA. Is that clear? I'm trying to get Ed, Clint, Eric, and Donny to share the information they are hording. I'm sharing some of the information that I've collected to show that this can be an awesome, community building process. Providing a word-document list of all the new routes is not helping folks go climbing. But what about the current guidebook authors? Who has talked to Chris McNamara, Greg Barnes, Todd Snyder - are they psyched to fixed up their guide? Have they collected any information from the community, from folks who might have thought they were going to come out with a better, future edition?

Cool. I'm also in favor of a centralized repository.

Until the U.S. Gov't adopts the role, would it suffice to have another party, such as the YCA, handle the collection and storage of this information?

I know that from previous conversations you're opposed to MP being that party because it's owned by REI. The YCA would, I think, be a neutral and non-commercial party.

Erik Sloan wrote:Yes Kent, The National Park Service, via their Yosemite Climbing Ranger program, should be collecting any information about alterations to public lands(or new routes, haha) by climbers. Furthermore, climbers should be required to submit any new routes, or alterations, to the Climbing Ranger office here in Yosemite.

How about we take it a step further. Only the Park Service is authorized to write and sell guidebooks? Would that work for you? (just kidding, but that seems to fit in with your logic)

Erik, you missed your true calling (as a magician).

Ed Hartouni wrote:Not only that, but being close to completion on the Comprehensive, it seemed that working on the Select would be a distraction.

Almost done? Sweet. How big is this super guide? Is it reasonable to take to the climbs? Will there be an E version that I can buy then print what I need for the crags?

How much? How soon? Where to buy?

K Weber wrote: Almost done? Sweet. How big is this super guide? Is it reasonable to take to the climbs? Will there be an E version that I can buy then print what I need for the crags? How much? How soon? Where to buy?

Why do you have such a huge stick up your butt about this?

Marc801 wrote: Why do you have such a huge stick up your butt about this?

+1, I might even describe it as a tree trunk.

Just more misdirection. ES doesn't want the conversation to center around the retrobolting issues so shifts the conversation to Ed not handing out free topos.

Mike Watson wrote:Just more misdirection. ES doesn't want the conversation to center around the retrobolting issues so shifts the conversation to Ed not handing out free topos.

Title of his thread= New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

misdirection indeed sir, nice catch

Because everyone is asking about the book... I see.

Title of thread - When will Ed give out free topos?

Hey Erik sloan,

Can you tell me the opinions of Tommy and Alex about retro bolting and ethics?

Do you respect the opinions of the people you wish to buy your book? If so, how?

Is the drive for money and ego worth all the negative attention?

What gives you the right to change or alter routes in yosemite valley?

PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE A POLITICIAN AND ADDRESS THE ETHICS ISSUES PEOPLE ARE HAVING WITH YOUR METHODS.

ANY KIND OF ADULT RESPONSE WOULD BE APRECIATED.

Erik Sloan wrote:Hi Gang, Was just making the Knobby Wall topo and saw this on MP: "I did the FA with bolts after many top rope and free solo ascents. The reason for the vandalized bolts? John Bachar, Ron Skelton, Mark Tuttle, Kurt Smith, Dave Shultz.....yes all of them....chopped the bolts on this climb 4 times in three months. Cowards and liars, all of them." - Dimitri Barton, 2014 The ethics discussion might need to be longer than you think, haha. All those bolts are back on the Knobby Wall, Cookie Monster, heck no one has found out who put up that sport pitch at Middle Cathedral that added an anchor in the middle of Paradise Lost! We'll talk about all this stuff another time. Woot Woot! E

SO WHAT I UNDERSTAND YOU TO BE SAYING IS THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE MADE BAD CHOICES IN THE PAST IT GIVES YOU AN ACCEPTABLE REASON TO DO THE SAME.

YOU'RE GONNA VOTE FOR TRUMP, RIGHT?

NOT 1 POST IN THIS THREAD GIVEs ME ANY FEELING OF RESPECT FOR ANYONE BUY YOUR OWN SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT.

BTW... I HAVE THE TIME AND MONEY TO CHOP YOUR BULLSHIT ON A REGULAR BASIS, I CHOOSE NOT TO ON BEHALF OF NOT WANTING TO FAN YOUR EGO.

PLEASE PUBLISH YOUR BOOK SO THE CLIMBING COMMUNITY MAY VOTE WITH THIER DOLLAR AND YOU CAN WASTE MORE TIME AND MORE MONEY ON YOUR EGO. NICE EXPENSIVE LESSON .

Bolting a top rope climb is completely ego driven not ability driven.that is a very bad example above.

Have you asked any of the above "offenders" why they chopped the bolts or are you just going off of mountain project info? I found the same info on HERE and that's all you got? I wanna see some interviews EGO BOY!

Marc801 wrote: Why do you have such a huge stick up your butt about this?

Why not? I have heard quite a bit of BS from everyone.

ED keeps blowing his trumpet yet I all I see is........nothing. It is time to put up or shut up.

Ed is just as annoying as the rest.