Another Accident due to mis-use of the Gri-gri

"Recall that 17 pages back I related the story of a young lady with 2 broken wrists catching many many of my whips. I think a broke hand for a brake hand is adequate when used properly." - nicelegs

I'm not disagreeing, but I think you missed the point of my post.

BigFeet wrote:I'm not disagreeing, but I think you missed the point of my post.

False.

There hasn't been real point (some imagined though) for at least 16 pages.

^^^ lol!

Touche, you got me.

I don't know if this would be considered a misuse. There's risk in everything we do.

climbing.com/news/jim-ewing…

This topic reminds me of skin lotion, a well, and a basket.

Maybe a healthy dose of crabs could solve the problem. One hand on the brake hand, one hand scratching your business. Feed rope. Quickly back to scratching your business.

Listening to 38 Special can't hurt.

Given the demographic today and the preponderance of gym / sport climbing, someone somewhere is getting dropped by a grigri every day if not more often. It's pretty much an unavoidable consequence of:

a) the general denial of gravity inherent with the marketing of sport climbing as essentially risk-free

b) the overwhelming dependence on autoblocking devices to support the basic modality of spending as much or more time hanging as climbing

c) a lack of understanding of the difference between 'autoblocking' and 'autolocking' and the complacency which develops when the thing does 'autolock' 99.5% of the time

All I know is, I never had this problem with my Sticht ...

There are 3 types of belayers
1. the incompetent
2. the competent
3. the half competent
The gri gri seems to be fine for the incompetent and the competent i have never heard of any really really really new climbers dropping any one with a gri gri simply because they have no idea what to do and the gri gri just locks, any competent belayer never lets drops their partner hit the ground they know the device like the back of their hand they know when to pay attention and when they can relax and even take their hands of the break side of the rope.
The half competent is the worst type of belayer, they could drop you with a tube device and they could drop you with a gri gri there really is no knowing they think they know what they are doing and can tell you exactly what they need to do but in practice they CAN panic and do everything wrong.
Probably could have explained this better but i think you drift my catch.
Look at every single case of someone dropping someone else with a belay device i guarantee you they will be the half competent 99% of the time.

Dave Schultz wrote: Or: A) Dont fall if your belayer can't belay and/or is new. B) Teach your belayer to belay you, then still don't fall. C) Only fall with someone who knows how to belay. If you know how to belay with a tube device you will be fine, the Gri-Gri functions on the same brake hand principle ...

If you're not going to fall why even bother with using a belayer? Just tie in and free solo to the anchor, where you can thread the rope and repel.

that guy named seb wrote:...any competent belayer never lets drops their partner hit the ground they know the device like the back of their hand they know when to pay attention and when they can relax and even take their hands of the break side of the rope.

Thinking like this well describes why people are getting dropped. There is no time when you can stop paying attention or take your brake hand off the rope. Ever.

that guy named seb wrote:Look at every single case of someone dropping someone else with a belay device i guarantee you they will be the half competent 99% of the time.

And 99% of them likely thought they were competent and sure they knew when they could stop paying attention and even take their brake hand off the rope.

that guy named seb wrote:and when they can relax and even take their hands of the break side of the rope.

Thank you for letting everyone here know you are a terrible belayer.

Matt Wilson wrote: Thank you for letting everyone here know you are a terrible belayer.

I guess Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell are both terrible belayers as well.
Edit: You also clearly haven't solo'd or route set with a gri gri or know why people bring gri gri's up big walls when aid belaying.

that guy named seb wrote: I guess Alex Honnold ... are both terrible belayers as well.

belay skills

Healyje wrote: Thinking like this well describes why people are getting dropped. There is no time when you can stop paying attention or take your brake hand off the rope. Ever.

Agreed. Complacency can find anyone if they let it. John Long and Lynn Hill got injured as a result of failing to double check their knots. Both assumed their knots were tied correctly instead of actually verifying. Todd Skinner knowingly used a damaged harness and died as a result. The list of experienced climbers who have been injured or caused injury as a result of making a mistake "only a noob would make" is a mile long. Take short cuts and eventually you'll draw the short straw.

that guy named seb wrote: You also clearly haven't solo'd or route set with a gri gri or know why people bring gri gri's up big walls when aid belaying.

I don't know if he has or not, but I used a modded grigri for about eight years for free lead rope soloing multipitch before the eddy came out and an unmodded one for aid soloing. But soloing was the only thing I used it for, never belaying. And I've done a bunch of anchor replacement work as well, but using a shunt rather than a grigri as a better device for the job.

Also, the use of a grigri for soloing is a choice which only affects one person - you. As a belay device, any issues with it mostly affect another person. Functionally, the use of the device in the two roles - soloing and belaying - is quite different. Before the eddy came along I thought the grigri was a semi-decent device for free lead rope soloing and a good device for aid soloing. I still consider it good for aid soloing, but it sucks balls compared to the eddy for free lead rope soloing and for belaying it's fraught with problems both mechanical and in how it almost unavoidably invites the development of [bad] belaying habits and behaviors - two of which you were kind enough to point out.

that guy named seb wrote: I guess Alex Honnold and Tommy Caldwell are both terrible belayers as well. Edit: You also clearly haven't solo'd or route set with a gri gri or know why people bring gri gri's up big walls when aid belaying.

I have not solo'd with a grigri, but I have route set with one, and about every 5 feet I would put a knot in the rope so that in the very rare event that the grigri failed to autolock, the knots would be a backup safety measure. But you continue to show that you falsely put 100% faith in your device. If you are soloing or route setting, fine, assume as much risk as you want. But I will never let someone like you belay me because you are complacent and allow more risk than you need to.

Matt Wilson wrote: I have not solo'd with a grigri, but I have route set with one, and about every 5 feet I would put a knot in the rope so that in the very rare event that the grigri failed to autolock, the knots would be a backup safety measure. But you continue to show that you falsely put 100% faith in your device. If you are soloing or route setting, fine, assume as much risk as you want. But I will never let someone like you belay me because you are complacent and allow more risk than you need to.

When did i say i put 100% faith in my device? Dropping your guard should be a calculated decision same as soloing or simul climbing, i'm not complacent, i'm just not dogmatic and have a understanding of the risks and how the gri gri functions. For gri gri's to fail you need to be either actively incompetent (preventing it from looking up) or there needs to be a catastrophic failure, I trust my device to not catastrophically fail in the very short amount of time that i choose to drop my guard.

Good God!!!!!!

that guy named seb wrote: I trust my device to not catastrophically fail in the very short amount of time that i choose to drop my guard.

And it's somehow a mystery that we have threads like these?

Healyje wrote: And it's somehow a mystery that we have threads like these?

Have yet to see a grigri catastrophically fail, the closest i have seen to catastrophic failure is the recall and when a grigri slid down a rope 2 meters because the rope was soaked.