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A Serious Accident Has Happened - Now What?

Original Post
Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

Imagine some serious climbing accident happened through no fault of the injured person. Someone else was responsible for the accident and they may or may not be willing to admit it.

The injured person has somehow gotten to professional medical care and faces a long-term recovery that they personally can not really afford. Everyone else has returned safe and sound to their loved ones, to their jobs.

Gym accident? Accident in the mountains? Doesn't matter for this topic.

Now what?

(This is a hypothetical question with no real-life experience to be held up as an example - although actual experiences are welcome. Answers can be from the injured party's perspective or the one who might have made the mistake. There is no right or wrong answer in terms of this thread.)

Simon W · · Nowhere Land · Joined May 2013 · Points: 55

This has happened before.. And I think you outlined the now what!

It's normally not all one persons fault.

Edit: in clear cases like decking it can be all one persons fault. But George brings up a good point that the leader has to accept responsibility when they leave the ground.

Check your knot, check your gear, know thy partner.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

Good points. And I well understand about "survivors guilt" ... like the thoughts as belayer that I could have done this or that to steer things away from an accident. That is not really my primary meaning.

I am thinking more of the case of clear responsibility from the view of someone experienced & objective. For example, in a gym, there are zones where only belayer failure could / would lead to decking such as on top rope and falling from the top of the wall.

Of course, there are other zones in a gym (or outside) where responsibility is not so clear.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Simon W wrote:know thy partner.
The above is quite close to the matter ... assume partners don't know each other very well.
plantmandan · · Brighton, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 85

Unless the injured party was kidnapped at gunpoint, they chose to partner up with said responsible person.

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203
Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
plantmandan wrote:Unless the injured party was kidnapped at gunpoint, they chose to partner up with said responsible person.
Exactly. And?

Allen Sanderson wrote:https://www.mountainproject.com/v/has-anybody-ever-been-sued-by-their-climbing-partner/111023842
Ok - a lawsuit is one possible outcome. And has the above scenario already reached the threshold for a lawsuit?
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

Have insurance.

Who cares why/how it happened. Cover your own ass.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Matt N wrote:Who cares why/how it happened. Cover your own ass.
I suspect many of us have or have had a climbing partner who can't completely cover their ass. For example, maybe one cheek is covered - health insurance - but the other cheek not - disability.
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

Acceptance of risk

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Bill Lawry wrote: The above is quite close to the matter ... assume partners don't know each other very well.
This is starting to sound like a very NON-hypothetical question.

I hope you can resolve whatever your problem is. And I REALLY hope it doesn't involve lawyers.
Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

"I hope you can resolve whatever your problem is. And I REALLY hope it doesn't involve lawyers."

... assumptions, Mike. You're old enough to know what they can do.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81

I'd research Tort Law.

yesrodcire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 5

I would tell you to suck it, accept some personal responsibilty for the choices you made, and pick a better belay partner next time.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81
Bill Lawry wrote:I am thinking more of the case of clear responsibility from the view of someone experienced & objective.
More specifically, look into the legal definition of negligence. That's where I was going with the Tort Law reference.

======
Negligence (Lat. negligentia, from neglegere, to neglect, literally "not to pick up something") is a failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances.[1] The area of tort law known as negligence involves harm caused by carelessness, not intentional harm.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negli…
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Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

To simplify - perhaps over simplifying (?), so far I'm hearing three different suggestions for "whats next":

1) Climbing is dangerous. Climber chose the belayer. No restitution can be expected.

2) Build a legal case for restitution. Bring it to the legal system to resolve the hardship.

3) Strive for a solution to the hardship without involving lawyers.

Yes? Something else?

yesrodcire · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 5

Lol yes, those would be the three options. File a law suit, dont file a lawsuit, or try to work it out with the parties involved outside of a lawsuit. It really took a post on a climbing website to figure that out? Maybe you should stick to basket weaving in the future... Climbing seems a little too complex for you.

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

4) Hide the body?

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
yesrodcire wrote:It really took a post on a climbing website to figure that out? Maybe you should ....
Not me. It's just a summary of what others have said of which you fall into #1 (i.e., no restitution). No?

M Sprague wrote:4) Hide the body?
Falls under #1. ;-)
Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

I am currently in exactly this position (I haven't returned to work yet, but I will soon). I was climbing in Chamonix last month, just about to finish a route called "Macho Couloir Direct". My partner was leading what was the last pitch, exiting out of the rocky gully onto a snow slope. He doesn't recall exactly kicking a rock off, but says he must have either touched it with his foot or possibly the rope loosened it. Either way, I was hit by a rock and now part (much of the lateral condyle of my left femur) of my knee will forever be in France. Helicopter rescue, surgery to patch me up, week in a french hospital, long flight home, more hospital, now recuperating and waiting for reconstructive surgery in January. I have only just been able to walk without external supports. Walked about 5km today.
French police (they did the rescue) asked if I wanted to press charges. Absolutely not. Shit happens in the mountains. One could argue negligence on my partner's part, but that's just the risk you take when you go into the mountains. You've got to accept the risk of getting hurt when you go climbing - any sort of climbing - and you've got to be willing to forgive and take it on the head if and when it does happen. I'm not angry at my friend for kicking a rock onto me - it could have just as easily been the other way around. He sure feels guilty, that's punishment enough.

Now what? I'm going to have my reconstructive surgery, I'm going to recover and I'm going to go climbing. When I go back to Cham, I will look up my friend and go climbing with him.

I may start (alpine) climbing with telemark kneepads though!

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Graham Johnson wrote:I am currently in exactly this position (I haven't returned to work yet, but I will soon). I was climbing in Chamonix last month, just about to finish a route called "Macho Couloir Direct". My partner was leading what was the last pitch, exiting out of the rocky gully onto a snow slope. He doesn't recall exactly kicking a rock off, but says he must have either touched it with his foot or possibly the rope loosened it. Either way, I was hit by a rock and now part (much of the lateral condyle of my left femur) of my knee will forever be in France. Helicopter rescue, surgery to patch me up, week in a french hospital, long flight home, more hospital, now recuperating and waiting for reconstructive surgery in January. I have only just been able to walk without external supports. Walked about 5km today. French police (they did the rescue) asked if I wanted to press charges. Absolutely not. Shit happens in the mountains. One could argue negligence on my partner's part, but that's just the risk you take when you go into the mountains. You've got to accept the risk of getting hurt when you go climbing - any sort of climbing - and you've got to be willing to forgive and take it on the head if and when it does happen. I'm not angry at my friend for kicking a rock onto me - it could have just as easily been the other way around. He sure feels guilty, that's punishment enough. Now what? I'm going to have my reconstructive surgery, I'm going to recover and I'm going to go climbing. When I go back to Cham, I will look up my friend and go climbing with him. I may start (alpine) climbing with telemark kneepads though!
Thats about the best attitude/way to go about it as possible. It most certainly was not on purpose eh? The rope itself could have done it.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Injuries and Accidents
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