Redpointing/Projecting?

BrianWS wrote: You will want a telescoping painters pole with a Superclip, Squid, or other appropriate attachment. I like the Superclip. 1. If low on a route, have your partner fully extend the telescoping pole (i.e. painter's pole), have them pass it up to you. 2. If higher on route, go in direct to your bolt. Pass a bight of rope down to the belayer. They attach the stick to your bight, you haul it up. Once you have the stick with you, you'll need to go in direct to your current bolt. Put your draw on the stick, pull enough slack to reach the next bolt, load the draw with rope, and clip. You can pass the stick back down or attach it to a quickdraw and hang it on the lower bolt. Now you are free to climb without a heavy and awkward pole attached to your gear loop. Obviously, the safety concern here is that you have gone in direct to a single piece of protection. This is necessary at crags with further bolt spacing (for instance, the New River Gorge), but not at others. Don't use this technique if you are at all less than certain about the integrity of your hardware! At some crags, bolts are close enough for you to go in direct to your second-to-last piece of protection. While still essentially on toprope, this allows you to also tie a bight on the belayer's end of the rope, connecting the bight with a locking carabiner to your belay loop. Now you are directly anchored to a lower bolt with your draw and tethered to the upper bolt with the rope. Voila, you now have redundancy as you clip two bolts above you.

Why not use this method, but make it redundant.

Clip in direct to a bolt on the climb. Now connect the rope below that bolt to a locker on your harness loop using a clove hitch or an autoblock. Have your belayer feed rope up as you pull it through the autoblock/clove until you have enough to stick clip the next bolt. At least if your bolt fails, you're only falling to the last bolt, and the autoblock or clove hitch becomes your tie-in.

Edit: You'll have to fix the Z-clip afterwards, but that should be simple.

The autoblock idea would certainly work for adding redundancy, but it would also significantly slow the process. Safety-first is obviously the best mentality, but it can be slow and over-complicated in the process - not to mention that we're already dealing with a pretty convoluted method of getting up the wall in the first place.
However, it would be the only good option if the hardware is suspect, or if you're a mixed route and in direct on dicey gear.

ChrisHau wrote: Probably projecting the Bachar-Yerian or Snake Dike.

Naw like 100-120ft with only 1 bolt and no gear. They won't add bolts to it because people in NC are crazy and the FA bolted it on lead and from the story i heard is it only has one bolt because it was the only spot he felt comfortable enough to put a bolt in.

Ahhh common...it's only 5.9...just don't fall! ;)

ViperScale wrote: Naw like 100-120ft with only 1 bolt and no gear. They won't add bolts to it because people in NC are crazy and the FA bolted it on lead and from the story i heard is it only has one bolt because it was the only spot he felt comfortable enough to put a bolt in.

bam....
short person stick clip for high bolts

matt c. wrote: bam.... short person stick clip for high bolts

I got a monkey but still having trouble training him to set the rope up for me.

ViperScale wrote: Naw like 100-120ft with only 1 bolt and no gear. They won't add bolts to it because people in NC are crazy and the FA bolted it on lead and from the story i heard is it only has one bolt because it was the only spot he felt comfortable enough to put a bolt in.

They won't add bolts out of respect for tradition. I don't think it has anything to do with your perception of the collective mental state of NC.

Which route are you talking about (GWW, GBW, and/or Bombay Groove)? They're all really good and not that bad despite the lack of pro. Rather they're protected at the harder parts and not at the easier ones. Stone Mtn. has got to be coming into season about now. Go get it, you can do it.

ViperScale wrote: I got a monkey but still having trouble training him to set the rope up for me.

This is slab climbing. A squirrel might work better...

BrianWS wrote:Here is some shitheadded but probably useful spray/advice: Look at the ticklists and climbing resumes of the people giving advice here. Draw your own conclusions about the merit of their suggestions. No offense is intended here. Just suggesting that you take experience into account.

HA I investigate people's backgrounds on here, too. I find myself scoffing at some people's pages. For the others, I click toward their page while shaking my head, then see their backgrounds and think "Oh, right on. That's legit, I suppose." LOL

BrianWS wrote:Here is some shitheadded but probably useful spray/advice: Look at the ticklists and climbing resumes of the people giving advice here. Draw your own conclusions about the merit of their suggestions. No offense is intended here. Just suggesting that you take experience into account.

Some of us may not keep their ticklists on this site. Nor keep our climbing resume or whatever up-to-date.

When I joined MP, rockclimbing.com was still a good place for climbing discussions. I only joined here to post on a couple threads that were linked-to from rc.com, so my profile was pretty minimal. I don't think I've looked at it to update anything since I created it. (Just looked, yep, pretty sparse.)

And, if you discount rgold's commentary due to his lack of ticks, and minimal climbing resume, then you're discounting someone who is, probably, the best source of well-reasoned, well-researched, quality advice on here.

Good thread, BUT... all this for a 5.9 w/one bolt? How are the 'hardbodies' working this? How do you work a section? Ize cunfused!¿

David Gibbs wrote: Some of us may not keep their ticklists on this site. Nor keep our climbing resume or whatever up-to-date. When I joined MP, rockclimbing.com was still a good place for climbing discussions. I only joined here to post on a couple threads that were linked-to from rc.com, so my profile was pretty minimal. I don't think I've looked at it to update anything since I created it. (Just looked, yep, pretty sparse.) And, if you discount rgold's commentary due to his lack of ticks, and minimal climbing resume, then you're discounting someone who is, probably, the best source of well-reasoned, well-researched, quality advice on here.

There are a lot of older/experienced climbers on here that undoubtedly have well reasoned, experienced opinions, most of the time about trad climbing it seems. However, I find that often that same person replying to a topic about projecting hard sport isn't helpful at all, kind of like it would be if an experienced sport climber replied to a question about climbing R rated trad. Two entirely different experience planes.

@Muscrat: the 5.9 comment was tossed out by an entirely unhelpful commenter, unrelated to the original post.

David Gibbs wrote: Some of us may not keep their ticklists on this site. Nor keep our climbing resume or whatever up-to-date. When I joined MP, rockclimbing.com was still a good place for climbing discussions. I only joined here to post on a couple threads that were linked-to from rc.com, so my profile was pretty minimal. I don't think I've looked at it to update anything since I created it. (Just looked, yep, pretty sparse.) And, if you discount rgold's commentary due to his lack of ticks, and minimal climbing resume, then you're discounting someone who is, probably, the best source of well-reasoned, well-researched, quality advice on here.

All due respect to RGold, but as vast as his knowledge is in many subjects, he's probably not the person I'd talk to about projecting hard sport routes. Not to pick on him, but I think you get the point.

David Gibbs wrote: Some of us may not keep their ticklists on this site. Nor keep our climbing resume or whatever up-to-date. When I joined MP, rockclimbing.com was still a good place for climbing discussions. I only joined here to post on a couple threads that were linked-to from rc.com, so my profile was pretty minimal. I don't think I've looked at it to update anything since I created it. (Just looked, yep, pretty sparse.) And, if you discount rgold's commentary due to his lack of ticks, and minimal climbing resume, then you're discounting someone who is, probably, the best source of well-reasoned, well-researched, quality advice on here.

Don't take my quote out of context. Read the thread - ability to climb 5.12 and up is pretty much correlated to having successful results with projecting. Much of the advice given early in this thread was objectively not helpful for the posted question. The unhelpful posts, as well intentioned as they were, were clearly coming from climbers with less experience regarding the topic at hand.

There are countless posters here with a wealth of experience and knowledge far beyond my own, such as the example you give. I would have no place offering advice regarding long gear climbs, alpine, ice, or climbing In the northeast. If I were to do so, the dubious quality of my suggestions would be immediately apparent to anyone who actually had experience in those areas. I would expect them to identify my advice as being, well... lacking in quality.

BrianWS wrote: Don't take my quote out of context. Read the thread - ability to climb 5.12 and up is pretty much correlated to having successful results with projecting. Much of the advice given early in this thread was objectively not helpful for the posted question. The unhelpful posts, as well intentioned as they were, were clearly coming from climbers with less experience regarding the topic at hand. There are countless posters here with a wealth of experience and knowledge far beyond my own, such as the example you give. I would have no place offering advice regarding long gear climbs, alpine, ice, or climbing In the northeast. If I were to do so, the dubious quality of my suggestions would be immediately apparent to anyone who actually had experience in those areas. I would expect them to identify my advice as being, well... lacking in quality.

I didn't disagree that posts from inexperienced climbers may not be useful. I was disagreeing with the idea that a somebody not having a strong ticklist on mp.com was the same as not being experienced. As a strong sport climber, they could easily be tracking their ticklist on 8a.nu, and have an empty list here.

Also, I took your "here" in the general sense of "on mp.com" rather than in this specific thread. I apologize if that was on over-generalization of that comment. The general thrust -- some people are inexperienced and give bad advice, watch for this -- seemed globally applicable.

A somewhat related question, how many grades above your onsight level does everyone typically try to project? For the purpose of this discussion, let's define your "onsight level" as the grade you can consistently onsight 75% of the time or more, not your hardest ever onsight.

aikibujin wrote:A somewhat related question, how many grades above your onsight level does everyone typically try to project? For the purpose of this discussion, let's define your "onsight level" as the grade you can consistently onsight 75% of the time or more, not your hardest ever onsight.

I'm probably not a very good example (I hate falling and usually climb trad) but I onsight 11c or d sport about 90% of the time. 12as and bs take more than a few goes.

David Gibbs wrote: I didn't disagree that posts from inexperienced climbers may not be useful. I was disagreeing with the idea that a somebody not having a strong ticklist on mp.com was the same as not being experienced. As a strong sport climber, they could easily be tracking their ticklist on 8a.nu, and have an empty list here. Also, I took your "here" in the general sense of "on mp.com" rather than in this specific thread. I apologize if that was on over-generalization of that comment. The general thrust -- some people are inexperienced and give bad advice, watch for this -- seemed globally applicable.

I'll make a more over generalized comment - anyone who keeps a tick list here is probably NOT going to be the world class rock crusher you want to get your advice from. A MP ticklist is a redflag - just like a GoPro or a belay certified card on their harness.

I try to onsite, and really try to get that done, after the first fall, its project time.

A pretty good sport climber taught me this: " once you fall, switch to going bolt to bolt.... stop and rest at each bolt, but be sure to go back to a position you climbed to ( hands and feet same spot, no progress via aid)at each bolt.... lower down, run the part where you fell off.... lower to the ground, rest and think about the climb. Rest up real good and have confidence that your going to get this done on the second go... try hard. If still falling, chop the climb down into sections, and do the bolt to bolt thing with a rest at each bolt. Figure out where you can streamline the moves so you can be more efficient. The main thing is to become better and better at the little sections so when you get to a bolt you don't need to hang and you can start linking the sections. Finally when your down to one crux section that keeps spitting you off... climb up to it, hang in-till fresh and do it like a boulder problem, moves memorized and practiced. Do it all in one go and your will feel like a million bucks, for a few seconds/days/weeks/years..... "

Just be nice and do not do this sort of work when others want to climb the route your working on..... in my case I project 5.11s... those are warm-ups for most of the youth who go where i go.... but i digress.

One thing that I see going on is the lack of effort to get a onsite by young guys/girls who are fully capable of climbing the grade of climb that they are on. They just go TAKE at the first sign of insecurity..... that's like throwing away the best part.

Eric Engberg wrote: I'll make a more over generalized comment - anyone who keeps a tick list here is probably NOT going to be the world class rock crusher you want to get your advice from. A MP ticklist is a redflag - just like a GoPro or a belay certified card on their harness.

Wow, that's one of the most snide, insulting and self-aggrandizing posts on MP in a long time.
You must be so proud! My hat is off to you.