Fixe Hardware Alien Evolution LITE Cam Failure

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Don't confuse Quality Control with Design Defect. The "old" Aliens had QC problems because individual units had failures ("QC" should have found the existence of such issues with proper sampling and testing of units "off the line"; from what climbers have posted (plastic triggers breaking....wires breaking/unraveling) I'd say there's a DESIGN DEFECT in these newer units. If a design defect causes catastrophic failure (i.e. the piece doesn't hold a fall) then ALL should be recalled. "QC" isn't necessarily responsible for checking EVERY possible circumstance that MIGHT cause an issue with the product, that's the DESIGNER's responsibility. Or, more accurately, he/she needs to at least EXAMINE the POSSIBILITY. (That's why so many disclaimers on everything we buy these days!)

However, in the final analysis the unit HELD THE FALL...correct? Isn't that the most important thing? It also seems that somehow the unit was able to be extracted even with the trigger broken (hence the photo).

Sounds like the person who posted " it's a shame they tried to save pennies per unit" (going to plastic) is correct!

Robert Hall wrote:Don't confuse Quality Control with Design Defect. The "old" Aliens had QC problems because individual units had failures ("QC" should have found the existence of such issues with proper sampling and testing of units "off the line"; from what climbers have posted (plastic triggers breaking....wires breaking/unraveling) I'd say there's a DESIGN DEFECT in these newer units. If a design defect causes catastrophic failure (i.e. the piece doesn't hold a fall) then ALL should be recalled. "QC" isn't necessarily responsible for checking EVERY possible circumstance that MIGHT cause an issue with the product, that's the DESIGNER's responsibility. Or, more accurately, he/she needs to at least EXAMINE the POSSIBILITY. (That's why so many disclaimers on everything we buy these days!) However, in the final analysis the unit HELD THE FALL...correct? Isn't that the most important thing? It also seems that somehow the unit was able to be extracted even with the trigger broken (hence the photo). Sounds like the person who posted " it's a shame they tried to save pennies per unit" (going to plastic) is correct!

Fixe appears to have a problem with both QC and design.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Fixe appears to have a problem with both QC and design.

Fixe has had problems with their Aliens since they started making them. Fixe has never been able to produce a product with the consistent quality control of its competitors. I think it's time to just call it like it is and let the design die. I love my Aliens but Fixe has had over 20 years to get it right and they haven't which makes it pretty clear that they are never going to get it right.

Another vote for the Totem Basics. Simple and durable design that looks great too. Mine are going on 3+ years now of mostly free/a little aid and still work like new.

20 kN wrote: Fixe has had problems with their Aliens since they started making them. Fixe has never been able to produce a product with the consistent quality control of its competitors. I think it's time to just call it like it is and let the design die. I love my Aliens but Fixe has had over 20 years to get it right and they haven't which makes it pretty clear that they are never going to get it right.

The Alien design was well tested and proven for YEARS prior to the CCH QC issues. MANY, MANY climbers used and abused the design. Totem basics are nearly the same and continue to carry on.

Saying "let the design die" is a bit chicken little.

Fixe has only had the rights and tooling etc to produce the original Alien design for a few years. Nowhere close to 20. Recall that DMM, when taking over the production of HB offsets, had to re-tool and rework production process to get an acceptable product out the door. It wasn't nearly as simple as turning the machines back on and hitting go.

Many "gen 1" products have had to go through tweaking before they settled into the pieces we use and love today. Yes, Fixe apparently needs to get their act together but the current trend, at least of the forums, of burning a product at the stake at the first sign of imperfection needs to be seriously tempered. Many, Many of the products we use today had earlier generations that had issues that were less than great but, were fixed and improved and resulted in a quality end product (Off the top of my head; Camalots, ATC, Totem Cams, various carabiners, DMM Offsets etc all saw improvements over time)

mattm wrote: burning a product at the stake at the first sign of imperfection needs to be seriously tempered.

First signs? CCH has had continuous production problems since 2005, they recalled their product in 2006, and even after the recalls they were still producing product that needed to be recalled yet again due to defective head soldering, and all of this was before the current version of the Aliens even came into thought let alone production. Aliens have had problems for so long that I honestly cannot remember a period when they did not have problems. There are more threads talking about defective Aliens on the Internet than any other brand, and by a large margin at that.

When a product goes through recalls dating way back to 2005, continues to have quality control issues worthy of another recall, changes the design and STILL continues to have quality control issues several reversions and 10+ years later, I think it's safe to say the "Alien" brand (CCH, Fixe Faders, ect.) is never going to get it right. Totem has gotten it right, so buy the Basics.

You are right that many cams sucked when they first came out. The difference is they fixed their issues, CCH/ Fixe Faders did not.

20 kN wrote: First signs? CCH has had continuous production problems since 2005, they recalled their product in 2006, and even after the recalls they were still producing product that needed to be recalled yet again due to defective head soldering, and all of this was before the current version of the Aliens even came into thought let alone production. Aliens have had problems for so long that I honestly cannot remember a period when they did not have problems. There are more threads talking about defective Aliens on the Internet than any other brand, and by a large margin at that. When a product goes through recalls dating way back to 2005, continues to have quality control issues worthy of another recall, changes the design and STILL continues to have quality control issues several reversions and 10+ years later, I think it's safe to say the "Alien" brand (CCH, Fixe Faders, ect.) is never going to get it right. Totem has gotten it right, so buy the Basics. You are right that many cams sucked when they first came out. The difference is they fixed their issues, CCH/ Fixe Faders did not.

Dave Waggoner had two main patents; one for the sheath, and one for the springs inside the cam lobes. There is nothing about those two concepts that makes the Alien design inherently dangerous or lack durability. Just because CCH had QC problems and Fixe is inept doesn't mean the design doesn't work. Totem has already proven you statements incorrect.

Any update to this? Am looking into purchasing several since I found them on sale.

mattm wrote:Yes, Fixe apparently needs to get their act together but the current trend, at least of the forums, of burning a product at the stake at the first sign of imperfection needs to be seriously tempered.

I don't see them as regular products like my tv or jacket, I see them as life saving pieces of equipment which I have high standards for.

What consequence will people harshly judging climbing gears failing? An advantage in the market to companies that nail design, production and QC - and which includes responding in a timely fashion to customer issues abd resolving them however is appropriate (recalls, or improved education/instructions, changes of marketing)

Jason Pullen wrote:Any update to this? Am looking into purchasing several since I found them on sale.

Here's an update. My SO sent one of hers in that broke for no good reason over a month ago, and hasn't gotten it back yet or even received an email.

Fixe needs to get their shit together.

I just sent some cams to BD to be reslung, and they emailed me when

1. they got them
2. Responded on the status after 2 weeks,
3. emailed me when they sent them out, and
4. responded when I asked for a tracking number.

Now that's customer service!!

Thanks for the update on the lack of an update on the EVOs. I completely agree rm!

one issue with the new aliens is that the trigger wire is the wrong lengths of some of em

heres one of my partners new green alien ... you can see that theres a significant difference between the max retraction by pulling on the trigger and the max the lobes can move

alien lite ... max retraction on pulling trigger

alien lite ... max retraction by pushing lobes

this leads to

- increased possibility of the cams getting stuck

- the new alien wont fit where an older one would have because you cant retract it enough

in fact my partner had that issue on lead ... "DUDE youre WRONG about the gear, my shiny new alien doesnt fit at the crux !!!" =P

note the larger X4s had a similar issue because of the shiet glue job on the kevlar wires ... that was more easily fix by scrapping off the glue however

my understanding from talking with retailers is that fixe screwed up a batch of the new aliens with the trigger wire lengths a tad too short

this has also led to prematurely broken trigger wires

shoo wrote: Here's an update. My SO sent one of hers in that broke for no good reason over a month ago, and hasn't gotten it back yet or even received an email. Fixe needs to get their shit together.

what was the failure mode?

;)

The design is good and will continue through totem, in a truly polished improvmentioned over cch. I have a double set of fixe regular aliens. Black through red and a full set of cch from gold to clear that are in goor shape. I have had zero issues with them. Others have had serious problems that's enough to not buy anymore and replace any future units with totems for me. There is enough info to abandon the obviously designed to fail alien evos. In the smaller sizes plastic is a death sentence for the unit. THe trigger bar is wider than the Crack you are placing it in. My bent and only slightly mangled aluminum triggers on green through black alien show the story.

I have some x4 cams, I honestly don't like them. For the same reasons I don't like the evos, they are too light duty. I would rather see a dozen more grams for some durabilty. Anybody still chucking on old Bd micros? Maybe not the most ergonomic design but f***ing durable eh?

I went through my local gearshop to contact Fixe regarding the warranty. They communicated with Fixe for a bit, and then Fixe asked to deal with me directly. They gave me an email addy and the response from Fixe was to send it in for a replacement. I've requested an original alien replacement instead of the Evo lite, because the lite is junk. They haven't stated whether or not I'll get the original. I am supposed to mail them the cam this week. When I get a replacement, I'll add another update.

James Willis>

That'l buff right out.

bearbreeder wrote: what was the failure mode? ;)

Trigger wire pulled out of lobe, just like James Willis' post. Edit: on my friends' cams, he had one trigger wire pull, one spring slip out, and I believe a sheath pulled on another.

Update: SO finally received replacement after about 6 weeks with no e-mail updates from Fixe whatsoever. Their customer service is almost as bad as their quality control, but I suppose it's better than never.

As I mentioned before, the entire first generation of these things should be recalled. So far, out of the 10 evo lites my SO and friends have had, 4 have had broken trigger assemblies via 3 different failure modes. That is not acceptable. The fact that fixe has not recalled them is disappointing, and strongly signals a lack of accountability and credibility on their part.

Do not buy.

shoo wrote: The fact that fixe has not recalled them is disappointing, and strongly signals a lack of accountability and credibility on their part. Do not buy.

Don't worry I've lost all respect for fixe at this point, won't be buying from them ever again.

its very sad as the "fix" is so easy

- keep the aluminum bars, especially the top

- keep the easily replaceable solid wires, which were never a real issue on the aliens anyways

- and have your QC up to speed

with the narrow heads, aluminum durability and easy maintenance ... they could have had a real winner

instead they made it more breakable, less maintainable and with quality control issues

this is one of the few times that the new generation of a cam is arguably WORSE than the old one, which by the way had QC issues as well

;)