Rumney Top Anchors

^^^^
PMRP? Miller?

Usually no need for that much chain. 2 screw links are most often fine. If you do need to extend them for whatever reason 1 screw link with 3 links of chain is the proper orientation.

As far as the Uberfall is concerned its a weird name for what was the decent trail and meeting place. Isa tells me the word Uberfall means an attack.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:If its really about safety and not about pure lazyness then my anchor wins hands down. Dumb it down with quick clips and you get too many people not actually thinking about what they are doing when they clean a climb.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Zswan. exactly. you are advocateing that joe beginner should never have to do anything other that clip into a thingy at the top of a climb. perhaps this is because you don't like joe beginner and would like to see him go splat.

How about laying off the hyperbole and dialing it back a bit? All you're doing is slinging mud and the only thing being dumbed down is your argument. Show me the mountaineering accident report for 'Joe Beginner injured/killed while using quickclips' to start with, because I can pretty easily go find the ones for 'Experienced Climber injured/dead after incorrect setup for rappel or rethread.'

Your claims that people 'need' to know a particular technique is just an opinion heavily colored by your experiences. I don't know how to ascend a rope using a prussik, and the likelihood of me ever actually needing it is approaching zero.

Tim - I can also donate cash to the cause, is there equipment I can have shipped to you?

so you are telling me that people don't need to know how to thread an anchor to climb outside?? that is what it sounds like?

Nick Goldsmith wrote:so you are telling me that people don't need to know how to thread an anchor to climb outside?? that is what it sounds like?

I didn't 'need' to know how to do it until the first time I went to RRG. And I haven't had a 'need' to do it ever since. Take what you want from that.

Exactly what I am talking about. perfect example. you were encouraged to not learn a basic skill simply because you climbed in an outdoor venue that has tried very hard to do everything for you. your outdoor experience was dumbed down to the point that you did not even know how to decend from an anchor that was not equipped with quick clips.

I was just finishing up my solo circuit one day @ deer leap when I heard the whack of gear and body slamming into the cliff. A brief investigation reveals a nice young coupple on The Full Monty a 5.10 mixed climb that requires a light rack of stoppers and a few cams. In fact it is an 80ft 5.10 climb with only 4 pieces of fixed gear on it. It rings in at 5.10x without the trad gear. I see the leader has taken several big whips and is just starting to go up again. I don't see any gear on his harness so I politely ask him if he knows that the climb requires stoppers to be reasonably safe. His answer. What are stoppers? His female partner explains to me. " we have been climbing at Rumny and saw the bolts so we thought it was all set up for us" just imagine if that kid had somehow thrashed his way to the top only to find that there were no clippy things up there......

ottice webb wrote: Typical RRG anchor nowdays

Sometimes a different anchor is called for in different situations. I placed the anchor ottice pictured on a trad route "The Underling" at Eastern Skybridge. Anchors like this are very typical of RRG sport routes. Typically for RRG trad routes I just use two glue-ins with 2 quicklinks on each and no chain. For this anchor I wanted to get the glue-ins a little higher up in to better rock, but still have the anchor visible from behind which is actually where the route is, not on the face you see, so hence the chain. Here is one of the bolts from the old anchor.
Petzl Drop-In Anchors

I also figured that the long chains in that shot might have been for reaching the clipping stance. My comment was more geared twords the typs of anchors that don't need a bunch of chain but for some reason have a gobs of it? I sometimes wondered if perhaps the person placeing it simply liked the workout from lugging 6ft of chain up the cliff ;)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:dumbed down to the point that you did not even know how to decend from an anchor that was not equipped with quick clips.

See there you go again, twisting things around. I never said I didn't know how to descend from chains/rings. I said I didn't 'need' it until I went to RRG. All your posts are basically boiling down to "blah blah damn kids."

Damn straight. and most of your music does suck:)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:most of your music does suck:)

Now, THOSE ARE FIGHTING words!!
Rumney anchor is just the warm up. :)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:As far as the Uberfall is concerned its a weird name for what was the decent trail and meeting place. Isa tells me the word Uberfall means an attack.

It means "to fall across" - the method used when down climbing the descent route to bridge the gap that one encounters. Remember who first climbed at the Gunks. It's described in the history section of the guide books.

Let's try to deal with the issue at hand. I appreciate the cash offers. You can send money to the RCA, or to me. 11 Elwoood Rd. Derry, NH 03038. Or you can contact Fixe, or Trango and have steel wiregates shipped here. Any money I get, I will mail back receipt.

But more importantly, again, try to lube some of the solid gates, just changing them all out will be a season long chore. Esp when non stainless quick links were used. They often rust and have to be cut away.

Thanks to all who are weighing in with positive suggestions.

Isa said it means an attack by robbers but what would she know... English is Not her first language. I googled it an came up with the attack translation. one of the examples was he decended appon us. it was obviously in refrence to he attacked us but pershaps some well meaning Appies BINTD got it wrong.

I should also mention that I contacted Fixe and brought this problem to their attention. Kevin Daniels is their main guy in the US, and at first he was in denial, but later admitted that this product was not up to NE outdoor conditions. He sent me a few of the steel wiregates, and "is working" on getting us more. I assume that means going back to the parent company in Spain. No idea on what will happen or when.

At the end of the day, climbers should have the training and common sense to be able to properly utilize every single anchor solution listed in this thread. They all work.

Pig Tails (or Rams Horns, etc) have been met with open arms from the core local contingent of Rumney climbers who use the resources both recreationally and professionally. Thank you Dave for the discovery and forward thinking!

It is the individual's responsibility to learn and control the risks of climbing. No one else's. So don't go getting poopie pants when your friend gets to the top of a route and doesn't know how to clean the anchors. Most importantly, don't lash out at people like Tim and Dave who sink countless hours and fiscal resources into equipment maintenance while asking nothing of the community.

Tim- the new wire gate solution looks promising. Here's to hoping your contact owns up to his product's integrity.

Come on James!!! You don't expect people to actually take responsibility for their actions do you? Don't be silly.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Exactly what I am talking about. perfect example. you were encouraged to not learn a basic skill simply because you climbed in an outdoor venue that has tried very hard to do everything for you. your outdoor experience was dumbed down to the point that you did not even know how to decend from an anchor that was not equipped with quick clips. I was just finishing up my solo circuit one day @ deer leap when I heard the whack of gear and body slamming into the cliff. A brief investigation reveals a nice young coupple on The Full Monty a 5.10 mixed climb that requires a light rack of stoppers and a few cams. In fact it is an 80ft 5.10 climb with only 4 pieces of fixed gear on it. It rings in at 5.10x without the trad gear. I see the leader has taken several big whips and is just starting to go up again. I don't see any gear on his harness so I politely ask him if he knows that the climb requires stoppers to be reasonably safe. His answer. What are stoppers? His female partner explains to me. " we have been climbing at Rumny and saw the bolts so we thought it was all set up for us" just imagine if that kid had somehow thrashed his way to the top only to find that there were no clippy things up there......

While I agree that this is an issue (and one I wondered about in my early outdoor climbing days at Deer Leap after spying some of the climbs on the lower crag), I think the biggest problem here is people assuming the protection on a climb. I have seen climbs with bolts and stared at it trying to determine if it was sport or mixed, but ultimately, I am a sport climber, and I don't have the experience or knowledge to look at something and decide "it looks doable", and then start climbing to find out. We have guidebooks for a reason- so that people know what they are getting on. I may be a sport climber, but there is a good chance I would hurt myself trying to reach the first clip on a good chunk of the Waimea climbs. I understand that there is a risk (one I am not willing to assume) in attempting a climb where I don't know what to expect for difficulty or protection.

Also, when is deerleap.com coming back?

Matt Wilson wrote: ... I may be a sport climber, but there is a good chance I would hurt myself trying to reach the first clip on a good chunk of the Waimea climbs. ...

That is why you are supposed to stick clip the first bolt.