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Dan Osman... R.I.P.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
sanz wrote: Paul do you know the name of the video?? And moreover, if anyone in Fayetteville has it? Old school NRG video sounds really promising.
I think it's either in "The South's Steepest" or "New River Gorge: A climbing Expose".
Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
frank minunni wrote: That's your view of course and you have a right to it, but mine is that he was a selfish egotist who didn't have the moral strength to put aside his wants for his daughter. And the lame excuse I've heard saying that his daughter wanted him to keep doing it is ridiculous. She was too young to make that kind of judgment.
This was beaten to death at the time in multiple forums - as happens every time a high profile climber/parent dies (climbing). There is no positive outcome that can occur out of beating it some more. Dan's daughter has even made an appearance on the Taco with the message that she is not scarred and is generally appreciative that Dan was the way he was.

Bottom line is that it (level of acceptable risk to take) is a personal unique decision for everyone and its not right to try and force yours on someone else. And your holier-then-thou attitude looses you credibility.
Merlin · · Grand Junction · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10
frank minunni wrote: That's your view of course and you have a right to it, but mine is that he was a selfish egotist who didn't have the moral strength to put aside his wants for his daughter. And the lame excuse I've heard saying that his daughter wanted him to keep doing it is ridiculous. She was too young to make that kind of judgment.
Of course he was selfish, climbing is a hugely self centered pass time and he was a hell of a climber. I agree with you on his traits as a parent but that doesn't mean he wasn't hugely inspirational as a climber and all around outdoor person. I watch his tribute video about once a year with a small twinge of guilt at admiring a man who was such a shitty parent.

The faces we present to the world and the faces we present to our family are often quite different. One face doesn't make the other vanish, some people are too nuanced to be summed up in sound bites.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
Merlin wrote: Of course he was selfish, climbing is a hugely self centered pass time and he was a hell of a climber. I agree with you on his traits as a parent but that doesn't mean he wasn't hugely inspirational as a climber and all around outdoor person. I watch his tribute video about once a year with a small twinge of guilt at admiring a man who was such a shitty parent. The faces we present to the world and the faces we present to our family are often quite different. One face doesn't make the other vanish, some people are too nuanced to be summed up in sound bites.
While one does not reflect the other, as you rightfully say; when taken as a whole, which is really more impressive?

Being a parent is perhaps our best chance at leaving a better world in our wake. I'm not trying to be melodramatic here but I recently went through a serious bout with cancer. When things got really grim, I remembered that I always said that if I could go to my grave feeling like I raised my child with love, integrity and passion that it would be okay. In those dark days that thought, the thought of what she had become and the relationship we had made it okay.
Merlin · · Grand Junction · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10
frank minunni wrote: While one does not reflect the other, as you rightfully say; when taken as a whole, which is really more impressive? Being a parent is perhaps our best chance at leaving a better world in our wake. I'm not trying to be melodramatic here but I recently went through a serious bout with cancer. When things got really grim, I remembered that I always said that if I could go to my grave feeling like I raised my child with love, integrity and passion that it would be okay. In those dark days that thought, the thought of what she had become and the relationship we had made it okay.
We've all got to pick and choose what we do with our life and how we do or don't want to make our mark. Some of us have kids, some of us teach, some of us pick causes, some of us climb. I don't have kids so I can't comment on what's more important. I certainly feel like I am leaving my mark on this world and changing a lot of lives for the better. Probably a good deal more so than most parents out there.

I'm not sure that I believe that having a kid would make me any better a person, it would probably make me a worse one as I am fully aware I am too selfish to have a kid.

I'm not sure whether DO was negative sum gain as a human for being a crappy dad, he definitely inspired a lot of people while letting one specific one down utterly.

Generally, I think you've got to take a person as the sum of their parts and realize that there is a great deal of subjectivity in weighing the merits in another persons life.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95

Well said Merlin. For me, a child did make me a better, much less selfish person. My passion for parenting and my daughter impacts my thoughts tremendously. I do realize that. In the final analysis, we live with our choices regardless of what others think.

Pnelson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 635
csproul wrote: I think it's either in "The South's Steepest" or "New River Gorge: A climbing Expose".
Yeah, it was "Climbing Expose" I'm pretty sure. Definitely not "South's Steepest."
sanz · · Pisgah Forest, NC · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 210
Pnelson wrote: Yeah, it was "Climbing Expose" I'm pretty sure. Definitely not "South's Steepest."
Do they have it at Waterstone? Can't find it anywhere online.
teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596
Mike Brady wrote: You do understand the irony of this statement....right?
Why is that ironic? Didn't Gulich die in a car crash?
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Because Gullich is known for having done the baddest solo of his time, the 20' roof of Separate Reality

K Weber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 15
frank minunni wrote:While it is a shame that Dan passed, and I remember it, it's difficult for me to heap praise on someone who took unnecessary risks with a child at home. Sorry but when you have children, as my ex told me, your life is not your own. I definitely toned it down after my daughter was born.
Totally agree. Thee is not one kid that is cool with a parent dying while they still need them. All these climbing/BASE heroes have serious selfishness problems and lack of responsibility.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
dave higdon wrote: I wish this frank Poonani would stop talking. This thread was not created for you to mother us... Create a thread with a new title to talk all this buzz kill shit so we can ignore you more conveniently...
Hey knucklehead.

This forum is for posting ideas, opinions, etc. And the comments are on point as they refer to the position the original poster took. I may disagree with the poster but I do not disrespect him or his position. There have been a number of back and forths so there is interest in the ideas.

And by the way, after seeing your monumental commitment and contributions to climbing, it's hard for me to see you as anything more than a ridiculous imposter. Gym and TR...oooh, I can't tell you how impressed I am! I don't know how you could even have an inkling of what DO or others were or were not doing.
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

^Poonani, the Westboro of the climbing forums... Get the reference? That's why he wants you to cut it.

frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95

Actually I don't get the reference. But I'm still ok with my posts. I fail to see why discussions can't be had without all the vitriole. I do try not to be disrespectful to those who disagree with me. But I don't like being shit on either.

Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316

The irony lies in the fact that Wolfgang did things that were just as "irresponsible" and then perished in a car crash. Same thing almost happened to Bachar. Reardon supposedly got swept away by a rogue wave, I guess he was behaving irresponsibly by posing for a photo? When your ticket is up its up, it doesn't matter if you are onsight free-soloing the nose or if you are walking down the street.

Climbing is selfish and egotistical on all levels and the only way to fully mitigate the danger is to not do it. I can fully appreciate and respect what having a child can do to a person, but maybe Dan, John and Michael were experiencing something that none of us ever will, and maybe that experience was/is more important than being a parent. But hey, I think that NOT bringing another child into existence might be the best chance a person has at making the world a better place.

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

We all get one life to live out of an infinite number of possibilities. It'd be a shame if we all limited ourselves to "one way." Diversity is the key to a vibrant and meaningful world in which to live.

Walter Galli · · Las vegas · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 2,247
Bill Lawry wrote:We all get one life to live out of an infinite number of possibilities. It'd be a shame if we all limited ourselves to "one way." Diversity is the key to a vibrant and meaningful world in which to live.
Col meaning..
Merlin · · Grand Junction · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10
frank minunni wrote: Hey knucklehead. This forum is for posting ideas, opinions, etc. And the comments are on point as they refer to the position the original poster took. I may disagree with the poster but I do not disrespect him or his position. There have been a number of back and forths so there is interest in the ideas. And by the way, after seeing your monumental commitment and contributions to climbing, it's hard for me to see you as anything more than a ridiculous imposter. Gym and TR...oooh, I can't tell you how impressed I am! I don't know how you could even have an inkling of what DO or others were or were not doing.
But you upset him by saying things he didn't like :) Poonani is slang for pussy, I don't get the westboro reference either though.
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
Tom Sherman wrote:Because Gullich is known for having done the baddest solo of his time, the 20' roof of Separate Reality
Off topic but here's a good read, Zak took the iconic photo of WG "resting" at the end of the crack. Then Zak soloed the route himself in 2005, 19 years after WG - planetmountain.com/english/…
vincent L. · · Redwood City · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 560

Frank Minnuni, to me it is tactless and unnecessary to call Osman a "selfish egoist" . The OP was simply remembering the climbing accomplishments of a very talented and unique individual. No where is anyone praising his parenting skills, or the choices he made off the stone. I hope in all your years of wonderful fathering you passed some class onto your daughter, especially the ages old maxim of "Don't speak ill of the dead"...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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